5 Speed Options for LS

Dawnpatrol

Jesse Higgins
Joined
Apr 25, 2016
Location
Raleigh
I was having a discussion with my coworkers about 5 speed options for ls swaps. They have more of a hot rod background than off-road. The topic came up about how people are using the AR5s pretty reliably behind 600 hp range ls engines. Looks as if the AR5 behind 4x4 Chevy Colorado can be picked up for pretty cheap. The only issue it is that they have a 5 bolt pattern tail housing. Has anyone here ever looked into using the Colorado AR5 in a wheeling rig? I wonder if the 4l60e 5 to 6 bolt adapter would allow you to use a 6 bolt transfer case, or would there not be sufficient spline length?
 
Novak has people putting the AX15 into 4wd's. If you can deal with the gear spread....a 2wd AX15 can be had for a reasonable amount of coin.
 
Bebop said:
Why not use a NV3550 or a 4550?
Click to expand...
Maybe that's the answer, just curious if anyone has looked into the AR5. From the sound of peoples experience of the 2wd version, it sounds stronger than the 3550 and AX15, and from a cost stand point looks to be cheaper than the 3550 and 4550.

How well do the 3550s hold up to mild LS power?
 
Pretty sure you can't get parts for the NV3550 anymore (something to consider).

I remember looking into the AR5 for a swap behind a 4200 vortec, general opinion was it would do it, but wasn't really up for much more than that.
I think that transmission was optioned in the Saturn Sky / solstice gxp and when hot rod did an LS swap, they stepped up to the T56.
 
The AR5, AX15, and toyota R series are essentially the same with different bells, input/output shafts, tailhousings.

R series - AX15

R series - AX15
board.marlincrawler.com

So whichever is easiest to find and work with shouldn't really be any weaker than the others.
 
paulevans76 said:
The AR5, AX15, and toyota R series are essentially the same with different bells, input/output shafts, tailhousings.

R series - AX15

R series - AX15
board.marlincrawler.com

So whichever is easiest to find and work with shouldn't really be any weaker than the others.
Click to expand...
In this case the ax15 should be able to take some decent hp. Seems like the AR5 is used in 2wd applications of 400 hp+. However it seems like most people shy away from the AX15 from a strength standpoint when talking V8 power. It seems that the tail housings are somewhat interchangeable with minor modification, but only found 1 reference (Vortec 2900 motor swap). If having to source 2 transmissions to make 1 is the only route, then it defeats the purpose of a cheap 5 speed solution. Prices on AX15s have gone crazy high.
 
If I'm not mistaken, the 3550 was a Jeep application transmission. GM used an NV3500.

That said, I have a factory NV3500 truck with a healthy 6.0 in front of it. It's held up to some abuse in a 6000lb truck. The later model ones are a little tougher than early ones. They also used a Getrag HM290, but they're garbage. I did see a series of videos where a guy had a 4.8/NV3500 truck. He then went 5.3, 6.0, 6.0 with a turbo, and finally an 8.1 swap. Kept the same NV3500 through the whole ordeal. I was going to do an NV4500 swap in this truck, but it's still tight and shifts nicely even at 206,000 miles.

The 4500 is a late GM version that's bolted to a Cummins. Not sure how much torque it makes, but 56 lbs of boost probably means it's a lot.

An NSG370 is a good option as well and fairly easy to adapt. You could even use a ZF6 from a Duramax truck, but gooood luck finding or being able to afford one. They're also MASSIVE and parts aren't available.

At any rate, it seems good manual transmission options are either hard to source, expensive, or both.


A lot of variables would play in to which transmission you chose. Spacial constraints, what transfer case you want to use, power level, etc.
 
Dawnpatrol said:
In this case the ax15 should be able to take some decent hp. Seems like the AR5 is used in 2wd applications of 400 hp+. However it seems like most people shy away from the AX15 from a strength standpoint when talking V8 power. It seems that the tail housings are somewhat interchangeable with minor modification, but only found 1 reference (Vortec 2900 motor swap). If having to source 2 transmissions to make 1 is the only route, then it defeats the purpose of a cheap 5 speed solution. Prices on AX15s have gone crazy high.
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Pick the trans based on what case you want to run then just adapt the front.

I’ve broken my ax-15 numerous times behind my stroker, and somewhat kinda learned what it will and won’t take. It’s behind my 4.0/4.7L stroker with decent cam and port work. Currently with d300 and red labels. The ax15 is stronger than the d300.

It’s not impossible to break, but you’ve really got to be trying.

The gear will just spin on the main shaft and knock all the splines off. Then it’s main shaft and gear replacement.

Deceleration torque will also push the snap ring off the front bearing on the counter shaft, so just watch so super hard decels,

With no/low sulfur oil, the brass synchros hold up better. You can get stainless ones but $$$$. I’ve been running 10w-30 in mine for years with better life from the synchros and still abuse.

There are a ton of options for inputs and outputs that use all the same center and main parts based of the ar5,m5, ax-15, r150, whatever you label it platform.
 
Here’s a shot of t AX15 bolted to the LS.

84741244f7da4aecbd58773551003ba6.jpeg
 
Ar5 and ax15 have an alloy mid plate good for 300 lb ft or a stock 5.3 gen 3 Chevy. Toyota r series (rare) had a steel mid plate (holds the bearings) and are rated at over 400lb ft. The mid plate is swappable, but you’d need a Toyota trans and an ax15 to get a 400lb ft rated ax15. At that point you’re still not as strong, almost a foot longer, and not as wide of a ratio as a 7.76:1 to 1:1 granny geared sm420 that will outlive the American empire and can be rebuilt with a pair of vice grips a hammer and screwdriver. Plus 5th on an ax15 is a weak link (some improvements were made that remedied this in newer units). If you want a road driven rig with OD nv4500, for off-road sm420 is king. You could also run a taller final drive with an sm420 for good highway (below 70) driving character.

Don’t get me wrong, I love shifting on an ax15, and behind a 4.0 is a great combo, but. It was never meant for a warmed over small block.
 
Dawnpatrol said:
Just a topic of conversation for now... but lets assume a toyota mini truck for the hell of it. And I didn't know that about the parts availability.
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I think the general assumption was that the goal here was for a 4wd. If you are talking about hot rod / 2wd applications....there are probably better options.

www.motortrend.com

Pit Stop: 1,000HP-Capable Street Five-Speed Manual Trans

Is There a Conventionally Shifted, Five-Speed Manual Trans That Can Take 1,000 HP on the Street? You bet—and it’s made by RLM.
www.motortrend.com www.motortrend.com

While a stock TR3650 isn't going to take 1000hp....it is apparently a good foundation, and LS adapters or bellhousing are readily available. These might make a good place holder until you explode it and upgrade to the big HP version.

There was also a guy making a 5 speed version of the A833.

If I were looking for quick and cheap, especially in a mini truck, I would stick with a 4 speed and some highway gears. You won't need the OD and the light weight of the truck mixed with the HP of the LS should keep drivability easy.
 
shelby27604 said:
I think the general assumption was that the goal here was for a 4wd. If you are talking about hot rod / 2wd applications....there are probably better options.

www.motortrend.com

Pit Stop: 1,000HP-Capable Street Five-Speed Manual Trans

Is There a Conventionally Shifted, Five-Speed Manual Trans That Can Take 1,000 HP on the Street? You bet—and it’s made by RLM.
www.motortrend.com www.motortrend.com

While a stock TR3650 isn't going to take 1000hp....it is apparently a good foundation, and LS adapters or bellhousing are readily available. These might make a good place holder until you explode it and upgrade to the big HP version.

There was also a guy making a 5 speed version of the A833.

If I were looking for quick and cheap, especially in a mini truck, I would stick with a 4 speed and some highway gears. You won't need the OD and the light weight of the truck mixed with the HP of the LS should keep drivability easy.
Click to expand...
Yeah we were discussing 4wd applications. I agree, the conversation kept going back to a simple 4 speed, like the sm465, and spend the money on a doubler.
 
Shreddinlettuce said:
Ar5 and ax15 have an alloy mid plate good for 300 lb ft or a stock 5.3 gen 3 Chevy. Toyota r series (rare) had a steel mid plate (holds the bearings) and are rated at over 400lb ft. The mid plate is swappable, but you’d need a Toyota trans and an ax15 to get a 400lb ft rated ax15. At that point you’re still not as strong, almost a foot longer, and not as wide of a ratio as a 7.76:1 to 1:1 granny geared sm420 that will outlive the American empire and can be rebuilt with a pair of vice grips a hammer and screwdriver. Plus 5th on an ax15 is a weak link (some improvements were made that remedied this in newer units). If you want a road driven rig with OD nv4500, for off-road sm420 is king. You could also run a taller final drive with an sm420 for good highway (below 70) driving character.

Don’t get me wrong, I love shifting on an ax15, and behind a 4.0 is a great combo, but. It was never meant for a warmed over small block.
Click to expand...
While i dont disagree, the sm420/465/435/nv4500 are not great if you are wanting to street drive it. If it is an offroad only rig, I would agree with using one of those trans. While they will work on the street, they drive like the vehicle they came from, so shifting is much slower than an ax-15 or similar type trans.
 
paradisePWoffrd said:
While i dont disagree, the sm420/465/435/nv4500 are not great if you are wanting to street drive it. If it is an offroad only rig, I would agree with using one of those trans. While they will work on the street, they drive like the vehicle they came from, so shifting is much slower than an ax-15 or similar type trans.
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Agreed. Even the worshipped NV4500 doesn't shift much better than my 1960 Massey Ferguson 35.
 
I'd be interested in trading my NV3500 that's in my 97 Tahoe crawler for a 4L60 if that's a route you want to go...food for thought....It's an external slave, 32spline output, shifts great, clutch isn't that old from the guy I bought it from. I'm just too lazy i guess to be switching gears while riding through the woods haha
 
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