8 lug axle questions/info needed please.

John Fuller

John Fuller

XJ Fanatic!!
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Jan 3, 2015
Location
Boone NC
hey guys, need some advise on these axles to see if they are worth me taking the trade for motor swap/lift kit labor.
93 Ford F-250 8 Lug TTB Front (D60???), 8 Lug Rear (D60 i guess??)...he believes geared 4:11 or bigger and has the 5.8L with the ZF 5spd transmission. not really interested in the motor and trans but the axles.....
is that front TTB 8 Lug axle a worthy build or a worthy swap into an XJ...(keeping in mind you guys know i don't wheel crazy and even with axles like this, i still wouldn't) since it's coil spring and would be pretty easy to swap in. I know the rear of course is worth it but is the front being a TTB still pretty strong even though it's not "straight axle"? i don't know anything about big axles so trying to learn and he's offering even trade for the whole truck for me installing motor/trans/3.5"lift kit in his XJ. DO IT or NO??
(i'm basically wondering if i took the truck and swapped the axles in my xj, with my kind of wheeling style, would it be a worthy swap to handle say up to 44s. thanks for any input and all is welcome but please refrain from any derogatory remarks, thank you.
 
The front is an IFS axle, should be a D50. Not swappable unless you plan on taking the entire suspension with it, and at that it's a better desert racing suspension than rock crawling. The rear would likely be a Sterling 10.25. Not a ton of aftermarket support for that axle but there is some.

I don't know that I would personally bother with any of it if I were you.
 
TTB? It'd take you more time and money to get it under anything besides the Ford it came out of than it would ever be worth. In short, not only no...but hell no. If you look at how it functions, it took twice as long to design a terrible idea than it would have if they had just kept using a tried and true solid axle. It'll also be a Dana 50 setup in the actual differential. However, from the ball joints out is the same as a ball joints Dana 60 IIRC.

It has to have two solidly mounted pivot points for each axle beam to articulate, the camber is never right so they usually eat tires, and there are so many more moving parts than there really should be.

Again, I vote absolutely not. The rear? Ehh...maybe. Chances are, it's a Sterling 10.25 or 10.5. Not a terrible axle by any means, but I wouldn't exactly go looking for one if my intent was to swap it under something else.


EDIT: He's right. In modified, long travel, form...it's pretty cool in desert racing and what not. It's just not made for crawling and such with real big tires.
 
so because i'm learning, an 8 Lug isn't necessarily a 60? and would the truck be worth taking to sell with the motor,trans,diff setup. the cab is flawless, frame clean as whistle, bed is off but good shape too. worth it and what is quick sale price ballpark for truck like that...apprx 94K orig miles too!
 
They made Corporate 10 bolts, Dana 44s, Dana 60s, and Dana 70s that were all front axles and 8 lug. There's a few more, but those are the most common. They're all very different. Rear axles are the same way and then you get in to semi-float 8 lug axles (9.5" small 14 bolt and some Dana 60s) and full-float 8 lugs (10.5" 14 bolt, Dana 60, Dana 70, Dana 80, etc). Can't narrow it down on lug count alone. After a while, you can just look at the differential cover and tell what it is.

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They missed a few. Mostly the newer AAM stuff... 8.6", 9.25", 10.5", 11.5". Also, a Dana 50 cover looks the same as a Dana 60 cover, but they're very different axles. As far as lug count goes...take a Dana 44 for example.

Ford Dana 44 front - 5 lug
Chevy Dana 44 front (1/2 ton) - 6 lug
Chevy Dana 44 (3/4 ton) - 8 lug.
Jeep Wagoneer Dana 44 - 6 lug
Other Jeep Dana 44s - 5 lug or 8 lug, depending on the application
Dodge Dana 44 (1/2 ton) - 5 lug
Dodge Dana 44 (3/4 ton) - 8 lug

So there's a perfect example of what I was talking about. All of those share the same center section and R&P gears, but the spline counts, axle tubes, axle widths, and outers can all be different.

Some manufacturers can trip you up by using a heavier axle in a lighter truck, but almost never a lighter axle in a heavier truck. Easiest example...a Ford F250 from 1978/1979. You could take two identical trucks and one could have a Dana 44HD and the other could have a Dana 60. It just depended on what package each truck was ordered with and what the GVRW was for each truck.
 
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wow good info ^^^^ buddy. thank you. i've been looking stuff up and never knew there was so much differences...LOL i thought 8 lug was just 8 lug strong beefy stuff...would've never guessed there were 8 lug D44s. lots of stuff i've learned in the last hour. wow, XJs are simple, lol!!
 
All this stuff is really simple too, but it does get more in depth once you get in to the specifics of years, makes, and models. Certain axles were only used during these years or were only used before certain years under a specific make of vehicle. Eventually, it's like second nature, but so far we're only talking axles. Engines, transmissions, and transfer cases are a whole different can of worms.

Honestly, I know all this because I've read every issue of Fourwheeler Magazine since September of 2000 (when I was 10) and since have acquired 4 trucks and built 4 or 5. It's just a lot of visual memorization and categorization.
 
^^^yeah im looking into it little by little. thank u for all your info
 
About the best, easiest and cheapest Axle setup you can run will be a 8 lug Dana 44 from a 70s f250. It was set up for leaf spring and easy to swap into a jeep with coils. Any rear 8 lug rear axle, d60, 70, 80, 14 bolt, sterling 10.25, etc will be the same 8 lug and can be found in junkyards everywhere for around $100. A good realistic budget to work with buying the axles themselves is about $400. Add $200-300 for bracketry, u bolts and extended brake lines. Then of course the cost of gears and lockers will kill you but you can get lucky and mix match a set that's 4.10 geared and run them as is, weld the front and go play.
 
Those axles are not a good candidate for swapping into your XJ. The trade of your labor for the truck depends on how much you think you can sell the truck for. Does the truck have a title? Does it run and drive? Why is the bed off?
 
drkelly said:
Those axles are not a good candidate for swapping into your XJ. The trade of your labor for the truck depends on how much you think you can sell the truck for. Does the truck have a title? Does it run and drive? Why is the bed off?
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it has title..motor and trans is there with only 95k original miles, took bed off to resand/restore frame rails and the bed itself...he was going to redo the whole truck and restore it completely but has lost interest over too many other projects lol so now wants to fix/build his xj and give me the truck...i guess it would be worth couple thousand at least i would think put back together and such, which would be technically worth more than my labor for motor/tranny/lift kit labor so might still be worth the trade for me...jeep xj motor/tranny swap labor is 500 and 3.5" lift is 350 so that truck would minimum sell for double that i would say for sure. It's still up in the air right now for taking it.
 
if it was solid axle front truck....we wouldn't be having this conversation LOL, i would've jumped on it asap!
 
I would do the deal, fix up the truck and sell it.
 
John Fuller said:
it has title..motor and trans is there with only 95k original miles, took bed off to resand/restore frame rails and the bed itself...he was going to redo the whole truck and restore it completely but has lost interest over too many other projects lol so now wants to fix/build his xj and give me the truck...i guess it would be worth couple thousand at least i would think put back together and such, which would be technically worth more than my labor for motor/tranny/lift kit labor so might still be worth the trade for me...jeep xj motor/tranny swap labor is 500 and 3.5" lift is 350 so that truck would minimum sell for double that i would say for sure. It's still up in the air right now for taking it.
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Wanna save a ton of time and money?
Cut the fenders cleanly,weld the spiders, add some 38s and wheel the TRUCK.
 
Jody Treadway said:
Wanna save a ton of time and money?
Cut the fenders cleanly,weld the spiders, add some 38s and wheel the TRUCK.
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And a solid axle Dana 60 is a damn near bolt in swap in place of the Dana 50 ttb stuff. Even though the f250 Dana 50 was ttb its, it used leaf springs up front and everything is the same dimension as the solid axle f350s
 
Jody Treadway said:
Wanna save a ton of time and money?
Cut the fenders cleanly,weld the spiders, add some 38s and wheel the TRUCK.
Click to expand...

This!

And cut the frame off behind the rear spring hangers and bob the bed to match.
 
Jody Treadway said:
Wanna save a ton of time and money?
Cut the fenders cleanly,weld the spiders, add some 38s and wheel the TRUCK.
Click to expand...
this is still up in the air as an option...i've already thought about selling jeep, buying some 40s/42s,weld those axles solid with small lift, cut fenders, leave bed off, cage it and make it a rock crawler...the money i would get from my jeep would be enough for tires, doubler, cage, and new joints and such so it's def an option. i hope to go look at this week and try and make a decision to go ahead and get it or not.
(being a Jeep fanatic though who loves the 4.0 and how the XJ handles and wheels, would i like the truck? how much different would something like this be to get used to handling and wheeling compared to the XJ. I've had so much driving experience with the XJ, i hate to get into a truck like this with 40"tires and look like an idiot on the trails not knowing how to handle what he has.
 
I 'think' that ZF transmission has a granny low first gear. Considering that, i dont think you would need a doubler. The transfer case probably has a decent low range of 2.7x ratio.
 
well good advise fellas. thanks for all the input and information on some axles. hope to look at it this week and make the decision. thanks guys.
 
drkelly said:
I 'think' that ZF transmission has a granny low first gear. Considering that, i dont think you would need a doubler. The transfer case probably has a decent low range of 2.7x ratio.
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I think its a 5.42 or 5.76 first gear. Not as low as the granny gear in on old four speed but it'll do. The transfer should be a 2.72 ratio. You could definitely wheel it as is for now and swap a 203 doubler in whenever you have funds that'd give you four transfer case ratios: 1:1, 2:1, 2.72:1, and 5.44:1.

The main thing about wheeling a full size is remember its wider and top heavier than a xj, but they already have the drive lines that everyone's looking for!
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You can always grind the rivets off the leaf spring hangers on the rear and move it forward to shorten the wheelbase easily. That's what I did on my profile picture on here. When that pic was taken at the waterfall in Harlan I bent a rear leaf so that winter I four linked it.
 
Tim C said:
And a solid axle Dana 60 is a damn near bolt in swap in place of the Dana 50 ttb stuff. Even though the f250 Dana 50 was ttb its, it used leaf springs up front and everything is the same dimension as the solid axle f350s
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The HD F-250 had leaf springs. The standard F-250 had coils. We don't know what he has exactly.
 
hey guys, last question....would this truck with 5.8 and the ZF 5spd trans make a good tow rig? compared to my 99F-150 5.4 auto ext cab, how would it pull and handle
 
John Fuller said:
hey guys, last question....would this truck with 5.8 and the ZF 5spd trans make a good tow rig? compared to my 99F-150 5.4 auto ext cab, how would it pull and handle
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It would be a great tow rig. Towing isn't all about the engine size, the brakes, suspension, and frame play a much larger role than most people. acknowledge. I'm guessing, as I know very little about ford, but generally speaking the 250 should have a taller frame, stiffer suspension, and bigger brakes than the 150.

I feel like the manual transmission would be another benefit to towing with the 250, especially in the hills. You can pick the gear you want, and be able to hold/apply full throttle.

Most factory autos get shift happy when approaching 100% throttle, and especially at lower Rpms.

Another benefit of the manual, is that most auto trans coolers are in the radiator, so you won't have that additional heat load on the cooling system.

For example, pulling a long grade the auto trans temps will go up due to torque converter slippage. Once the trans temps go above the engine temp, then that fluid is heating the radiator.

With the manual trans you won't have that.

I vote for what Jody said above, or use it for your tow rig.
 
Why not ditch the ford body completely, and fab up some mounts to put and entire cherocar on top of the ford frame....

Plenty of room to clear 38's.....

Just stirring the pot. Haha

Seriously, my .02.

Tow with the 250 and keep wheeling your xj's. This way you can setup the 250 just for towing/parts hauling, and setup the xj for offroad.
 
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