Anti-Wrap Bar...

Caver Dave

Caver Dave

Just holdin' it down here in BFV
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Mar 10, 2005
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Hooterville (24171)
Short version, got a smokin' deal on a M.O.R.E. anti-wrap bar (Thanks again Jesse!)

tractionbar.jpg


Stuck it under the Moss tonight. The axle end is against the chunk on the pass. side and the frame end is about 3" inside the frame rail. Cut a bracket (from parts of Tater's CJ bumper :lol: ) and plan to weld it the inside of the frame, but can't decide on which way to mount the frame end.

Shackle In:

- Tension? gives me the most clearance on the leading edge and will make mounting much easier
- Compression? lowers the bottom edge to where it parallels & might protect the driveshaft, but could snag hanging that low...
 
It will perform better with the shackle in compression only because the bar is not angled up as much. The shackle itself doesn't give a damn.
 
After searching Pirate, the majority seemed to say tension was best (no real explanation of exactly WHY). I wouldn't think the angle of the bar would make that much difference as long as the shackle will sufficiently move through the range of the axles arc, right? :confused:

The angle in my case is only 3" difference in the position of the Johnny joint...
 
what your going to see is that with the shackle in tension you will increase the antisquat numbers of your rear suspension... you may not physically notice it behind the wheel though...
 
paradisePWoffrd said:
what your going to see is that with the shackle in tension you will increase the antisquat numbers of your rear suspension... you may not physically notice it behind the wheel though...
Click to expand...


$5 says you will when you start rock-humping.. BTDT.

By the way, you'll want more than just a bracket IMO.. more like a cross member mount.
 
paradisePWoffrd said:
what your going to see is that with the shackle in tension you will increase the antisquat numbers of your rear suspension... you may not physically notice it behind the wheel though...
Click to expand...

OK, give the me 5minute version of what that actually means!


Rich said:
$5 says you will when you start rock-humping.. BTDT.

By the way, you'll want more than just a bracket IMO.. more like a cross member mount.
Click to expand...

I'm guessing you means the bucking/bouncing we've all seen?

While the length on the bar is fine for a Commando (center pin to fixed eye is comparible to a CJ/YJ... even though the leafs are heavily offset), my DS is MUCH longer than the CJs! It creates an issue in attempting a full crossmember, that's why I was going with the bracket... chunk of channel (mentioned earlier) plated/gusseted and welded to a reinforced inner box...
 
Yeah basically it means that you will pull up to a rock or ledge and start bouncing instead of climbing up it...

and try to make a crossmember if possible, cuz that thing will have alotta force on it... think maybe ~2k lbs of force or so pulling and pushin on it...
 
Rich said:
$5 says you will when you start rock-humping.. BTDT.
Click to expand...

Rich, hopefully you mean the anti-squat definitely will be noticeable?

And not that mounting the shackle in tension will definitely cause the "bounce"?

I'm working towards a full crossmember, but it's tight trying to span over the DS at that point!
 
The longer you can make the bar, the better..

But the end result is, having x" of separation at the axle and 0" at the other end is going to increase the AS of the system. Having the bar lower will help to minimize it... as will making the bar longer.

There's no free lunch. If you built a link suspension with 2 of these types of bars and a panhard bar to hold the axle side to side, it wouldn't work very well. You can't expect it to work well just because you have leaf springs, too?

I don't like them, having run one for a few years and was constantly fighting with having too much AS. It really only reared its head when you'd get on the gas on a hill with low traction.. other than that, it worked OK. The best thing the wrap bar did for me was push me towards a 4-link.. :D But, you have to do SOMETHING, as axle wrap can be bad and ruin your day.. typically the high AS will only make you have to pull cable *IF* you back out of it when you start bouncing.
 
Rich said:
The longer you can make the bar, the better..

But the end result is, having x" of separation at the axle and 0" at the other end is going to increase the AS of the system. Having the bar lower will help to minimize it... as will making the bar longer.

There's no free lunch. If you built a link suspension with 2 of these types of bars and a panhard bar to hold the axle side to side, it wouldn't work very well. You can't expect it to work well just because you have leaf springs, too?

I don't like them, having run one for a few years and was constantly fighting with having too much AS. It really only reared its head when you'd get on the gas on a hill with low traction.. other than that, it worked OK. The best thing the wrap bar did for me was push me towards a 4-link.. :D But, you have to do SOMETHING, as axle wrap can be bad and ruin your day.. typically the high AS will only make you have to pull cable *IF* you back out of it when you start bouncing.
Click to expand...


I am having the same issues with my jeep. It will acutally lift the rear tires off of the ground if you buzz it up and dump the clutch on pavement. It sucks! I will be linking my junk in the near future. It is ok for regular trail riding, but as rich stated the hills will cause you to hop up and down crazy.
 
if i power brake mine the driver side jacks up in the rear and the rear passenger side fully compesses.... im pretty sure it's because of the shackle angle on the anti-wrap bar but aside from that i don't have any complaints.... jeep still flexes great....
 
Rich said:
I don't like them, having run one for a few years and was constantly fighting with having too much AS. It really only reared its head when you'd get on the gas on a hill with low traction..
Click to expand...

jeepn-jason said:
I am having the same issues with my jeep. It will acutally lift the rear tires off of the ground if you buzz it up and dump the clutch on pavement. It sucks!
Click to expand...

Erik said:
if i power brake mine the driver side jacks up in the rear and the rear passenger side fully compesses.... im pretty sure it's because of the shackle angle on the anti-wrap bar but aside from that i don't have any complaints.... jeep still flexes great....
Click to expand...

Thanks! I'm hoping to put this to bed, cause I want to ride in 2 weeks and have a few dozen other things.

Would you guys tell us the length of the bar in relation to the axle/TC, angle of the top bar, and angle/orientation of the shackle... that caused your "issues"?

:beer:
 
Well, based on the feedback :flipoff2:...

It's done!
- 6.5" separation at axle
- Top bar at 80* angle to the axle (10* upward from axle)
- Shackle is at 90* (straight up/down) & in Tension

Didn't have time to road test it this weekend, but will tomorrow evening (need to get everything warmed/churned up for checking diff fluids and oil change). Based on what it USED to do... pass. rear would squat noticeably (from my position) under hard accel, shouldn't be hard to tell if it's good to go... OTOH, only some trail time will tell if it's doing the job as intended...
 
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