Axle Build Suggestions

YJJPWrangler

YJJPWrangler

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 19, 2005
Location
Charlotte
So since I have the drive train for the willys figured out(4.3l/SM420/D300) I need to move on to the axles. Tire size will be 33-35" tires.

I am going to use narrowtrack D44s out of a Wagoneer. I need options on gearing and lockers. The goal of the Willys is to be a simple, reliable wheeler with the ability to drive around town when the weathers nice.

My thoughts are as follows:

Gearing F/R - 4.56 to 4.88(maybe deeper?)

Rear axle - Detroit. Pros - simple, reliable, pretty indestructible. Cons - sucks in snow/ice(non issue bc I most likely won't be driving it then)

Front axle- ??? I know I want some type of selectable but am not sure the direction. I know ARB makes a solid unit but that means OBA or compressor. ZIP is another air adjustable as well. I haven't looked to much into the OX lockers(cable actuated) but I do like the idea. I am not really a fan of lunchbox lockers as I have seen them fail too much on the trail.

So, Opinions? Suggestions? Also, any suggestions or improvements I can make to the axles for reliablity/strength etc?

Thanks,

Zack
 
With a 4.3 and Dana 44 axles, I'd run a lunchbox locker all day long and use the $ saved for some gold plated curb feelers, fuzzy dice, or whatever. I'm willing to bet good $ there will be plenty other weak links in the drivetrain than a lunchbox locker.

As for gearing... I think I'd stick with 4.56 since you have the super slow mo granny gear in the 420. If you jump up to 35s, 4.88 may be the way to go.
 
I think a lunchbox locker would suite you fine. I've personally beat the crap out of several and never had an issue.


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Last time I was at Uwharrie, we ended up towing a YJ that grenaded the rear DS plus the front lunchbox in the D30. I just want something that is simple, reliable, and hard to break. Any suggestions on which lunchbox would be best?
 
I'll take a Spartan for the price, ease of install and reliability any day. Had very good luck with them. I've had LockRights in my last two rigs and they are noisy, and have lots of slop. I feared they would fail me at some point but never did. My Spartans did not have the same issues.

You will get different opinions on which is better but I prefer a Spartan over all. And I have found them to be plenty strong, even with some heavy drunken wheeling in my wilder days.

As for selectable like you mentioned, if your running locking hubs just leave the driver side unlocked when wheeling and hop out when you really need it. Save money for an ARB down the road. My last wrangler was actually welded since I was broke and had locking hubs.



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@rockcity, you mentioned there might be other weak links in the drivetrain...care to specify? I really want to stay away from a spool or locking/unlocking hubs for the front.

Aside from cost, what are the pros/cons of running a spool in the rear?
 
YJJPWrangler said:
@rockcity, you mentioned there might be other weak links in the drivetrain...care to specify? I really want to stay away from a spool or locking/unlocking hubs for the front.

Aside from cost, what are the pros/cons of running a spool in the rear?
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Not necessarily weak links, but rather there are other items that are likely to break well before the lunchbox locker. D44 joints, stub shafts and locking hubs come to mind as well as driveshaft. Ive seen many more of those items broken than I have a lunchbox locker.


Spool: low cost, easy to install, simple and no moving parts, durable, doesn't unload when driving on the road like some lockers can do. But, it affects road handling characteristics especially during turning and on wet/slick surfaces. Increases tire wear when used on the road a lot.

I wouldn't hesitate running a spool on the road. Hell, I had a spool in a daily driver for years. I have spools front and rear in my buggy.
 
With a spool in the front, how much does it negatively affect turning radius? With the potential for driving on-road, I think a spool wouldn't be that great(assuming I don't have lockable hubs).
 
I don't like my spool in the front. That's why I'm putting in the ZIP locker. If you have locking hubs the spool doesn't matter much on the road. But, the spool in the front is tough on steering off road
 
Ok..so a good setup would be a lunchbox(spartan) in the front and a spool in the rear. That would be the cheapest, most effective route. If I didn't like the spool, I could always pull it and put in a detroit.
 
the downside of a spool in the rear of a swb jeep, its going to push when turning. In the mud or snow or really loose dirt, it will want to push. In 2wd its almost un-turnable on occasion.

My suggestion would be spartan front and selectable in the rear. On the street you wont notice any ill effects. On the trail you can leave the rear open until you need it. If you dont want to spend the money on a selectable, I would run a lunchbox in the rear.
 
For the price of a spartan locker, it almost doesn't make sense to go with a spool.

I wouldn't hesitate to run a spartan in either or both axles. I ran a lock right in my CJ AMC 20 for years and was pleased with it. Now I have a spartan for the mini buggy rear.
 
YJJPWrangler said:
With a spool in the front, how much does it negatively affect turning radius? With the potential for driving on-road, I think a spool wouldn't be that great(assuming I don't have lockable hubs).
Click to expand...

It doesn't affect turning radius, because you're not mechanically changing anything about the steering. Actually, it will affect turning radius depending on which tire is slipping or getting dragged, and Ackerman will have an affect during that as well. You can't turn without a difference in speed between the left and right front tires, so that means that anytime you turn (even the slightest amount) with a spool, one or both tires are forced to break traction because of the speed difference.
So if you've got slipping tires, you can't always turn as much as you want, because you're forcing understeer without traction. That's really sketchy on the road (and very dangerous in wet conditions), unless you can unlock the hubs. It will also steer like a pig, on-road or off-road, so build up those forearm muscles first. And massive tire wear.

So just forget about the spool and buy some kind of locker or limited slip instead.
 
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I wouldn't not put locking hubs on the front. That will keep streetability as normal as you can get.

A locker will do much better on the road than a spool, most of time. The only time I don't like a locker on the road is when it decides to unload unexpectedly. Aside from that, I'd take the locker on the road over a spool any day.
 
@Fabrik8 Thats what I meant, sorry for the confusion. I understand the mechanics of tires turning with one turning faster/slower etc and how a locked front would be affected. @paradisePWoffrd that combo has occurred to me and the points you bring up are valid.

I am leaning towards the idea of a spool in the rear and a spartan up front.

For a spooled rear, what are the main differences/characteristics between a mini spool and a spool?

EDIT: a quick google search at work shows that a mini spool replaces only the spider gears and are prone to breakage. A full spool replaces everything and requires resetting of the gears etc. Anything else I'm missing?
 
YJJPWrangler said:
For a spooled rear, what are the main differences/characteristics between a mini spool and a spool?
Click to expand...

Strength. A spool replaces the full carrier, instead of just replacing the spider assembly. They work the same and perform the same function, one's much stronger than the other though. You're still at the mercy of the shear strength of the crosspins and the strength of the stock carrier. A full spool is lighter too, and has less rotational inertia, but that's more of a benefit to drag racers and really doesn't matter for what you're doing.

On the plus side, you don't have to do any setup or shim changes with the mini-spool, because you're not replacing anything that could change the ring and pinion relationship because of different dimensions. Besides cost, that's the only benefit of a mini-spool over a full spool.
 
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In a d44 with a v6, I don't think the slim advantages (strength) of a full spool is worth the headache of setting gears again. If you are regearing anyeay, then it's really a moot point.
 
If your driving on the street alot do it right the first time and get selectable lockers front and rear and be done. no negative effects of a locker unloading, no steering problems, no tire wear problems etc... your already setting up gears so that cost stays the same so other than the additional upfront cost of the lockers theresults really no downside.
 
This will not be a daily driver at all. I have the work truck or the Tundra for that. I am wanting to get a trailer so it can be trailered to and from trails. The only on-road driving will be in and around town when the weather is good. As much as I would love selectables front/rear. The added cost for selectables could be put in to the jeep somewhere else. I appreciate all the responses and opinions/facts.

Thanks guys.

Zack
 
For what it's worth: as mentioned I had lunchbox front and rear in my TJ. I swapped axles and went with a spool in the rear for the $. I absolutely hated the way it handled both on and off the trail. It saw little road time, but felt like I was just wasting tire on the road every time. It made my jeep twist and push so much compared to what I was used to.
It could serve you well for a while if you wanted to save for a better locker later. But I think you are letting a few bad stories out-way the pros of a lunchbox. They are plenty strong as mentioned above.
So you can have the unload and ratcheting of a lunchbox, or the constant tire chirping, pushing and twisting of a spool.
By all means don't spool the front.
Also, locking hubs are your friend. If I can choose my weak link, that is def what I want. Quick, easy and cheap repair. Available at part stores, can keep one in the jeep, and they will hold up fine for most mild/moderately heavy wheeling.
Again, different opinions from different folks. But these were my experiences.


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i still need to pick up the D44s. I am just trying to get as much information as I can right now. My only concern with the lunchbox was seeing that YJ at URE grenade it having to tow it off the trail. I am not spooling the front at all.

I have never driven a jeep with lockers so I do not know what to expect as far as loading/unloading. I have heard stories about how bad they can be(probably related to install) with loading/unloading of the axle. Ideally, I would love to have selectable hubs in the front. I do have a line on a set of axles but do not know the condition or gear ratio in them. Keep the experiences opinions coming. It is very helpful for me and probably for other people contemplating lockers.
 
I had a lock-rite in the rear of my CJ5 and hated it. Ended up going with a Detroit TruTrac, loved it. I would be afraid that a spool in the rear would make steering very difficult with an 80" wheelbase. I have a spartan locker in the front of my Tacoma now and it doesn't seem as harsh as the lock-rite, for the money I would go Spartan lockers front and rear. I also had 4.88 gears with 38" TSL's while I was running the 420/300 combo. If your planning on running 35's, I would not go deeper than 4.56. 4.10 would probably do better than you think (especially if you go with 33" tires), but unless the axles already had 4.10 I would go 4.56. Definitely run locking hubs if you're planning on much street use at all, keep drive flanges for trail spares.
 
I would use a rodeo 44 in the rear. Gets you disc brakes w/ an ebrake, and a decent housing.

Selectable locker in the rear. Most are open/locked, but I think it was auburn ected, was limited slip while "off" and the fully locked when engaged.

I've daily driven with a spool and a Detroit in the rear, and I would definitely do a selectable next time.

I prefer a spool over a Detroit on the street, but it gets old.

I would however put a lunchbox locker in the front, or leave it open unless you have hubs you can unlock for the street.

I ran 4.56 with 32s,33s,35s, and 36s.

My wife's yj has 3.55s with 35s.

I would say your low first gear and 4.3, you could get away with 3.73 or 4.10 if spending much time on the street.

If you plan to spend more time not on the highway, then I wouldn't go deeper that 4.56 just to help Offroad.

This combo would be good with up to 37s, which would need rcvs or other good shafts for the front, which you may want to do with a locker in the front, as most d44 shares the same ujoint as a Dana 30.

I'm pretty sure the rodeo d44 I had was 4.10 factory, this would mean only rehearing your front.
 
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