Black Mountain Off-Road Adventure Area (Harlan, Ky) Fee Syst

TiredIronGRB

TiredIronGRB

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 6, 2005
Location
Kingsport, TN
Harlan County Outdoor Recreation Board Authority, Inc.

P.O. Box 489

Harlan, KY 40831

Phone: 606-573-4495

Fax: 606-573-9485 ​


January 16, 2009



To All Visitors:


It is the goal of the Harlan County Outdoor Recreation Board Authority to provide our visitors with the best possible off-road destination in Eastern Kentucky. While the Black Mountain Off-Road Adventure Area has many local supporters who help make it what it is, necessary funds are vital for its growth and development.


A permit fee system has been enacted to ride on Black Mountain Off-Road Adventure Area. This permit system will grant the funds necessary for maintenance of the park, security, enhancement of existing trails, fund new trails and necessary projects for the improvement of the park.


Permits can be purchased yearly or monthly and are sold per vehicle. A yearly pass can be purchased at $35.00 or a 31 day pass can be purchased for $20.00 per vehicle.


Owners of multiple vehicles can purchase one pass for up to three vehicles. All the vehicles will be listed in our database. However, the purchaser will only be allowed one vehicle on the park at a time. The permit will be changed to the vehicle in use for that day. The yearly permit will be at cost of $40.00 or the 31 day permit can be purchased at a cost of $25.00. The permit could not be permanently fixed to any vehicle since only one permit would be given.


Family permits will also be available for purchase. These permits are for owners of several vehicles that would use more than one vehicle on the park at a time. This would be considered a family situation. Each vehicle would receive a sticker and I.D. The cost of the first vehicle would be $35.00, the second would be $30.00, the third and all others would be $20.00. There will be no family permits for 31 days.


For more information on any of the permits listed above or to inquire when and where they will be available for purchase please contact the board secretary, Susan Haught at 606-573-4495 or you can email her at shaught@harlanonline.net.


Thank you for your support and for making Black Mountain Off-road Adventure Area among the top 10 off-road destinations in the U.S.







Sincerely,

Michael King

President
 
I called and talked to Susan. Right now they have the yearly passes, but not the 31 day pass/ She said they should be ready the middle of March. I also asked where to buy them.
Visitors center in Harlan
The Chevron station on the left as you come into Evarts
or www.harlancountytrails.com will have them, but not right now
 
Down&Dirty said:
It is about time. I am more than happy to pay to help keep everything open and growing.
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X3
upnover said:
I called and talked to Susan. Right now they have the yearly passes, but not the 31 day pass/ She said they should be ready the middle of March. I also asked where to buy them.
Visitors center in Harlan
The Chevron station on the left as you come into Evarts
or www.harlancountytrails.com will have them, but not right now
Click to expand...
Thanks for the info, Chip.:beer:
 
This post has been up for almost a month now and has received very few comments. I assume most are satisfied with this fee system as proposed, and I will probably get flamed for my opinion, but to me this fee system is totally ridiculous, possibly even more so than Windrock's greedy fee system.

For me, Windrock and Harlan are both a 6 hour drive (each way). Normally, I will drive to on Friday, and from on Sunday. Saturday is the only day I will ride. Since my spouse normally accompanies me, my cost to enter Windrock for one day is $34. Add to that the cost of fuel, lodging, food, and other miscellaneous expenses and you have a darned expensive weekend. I will also mention that the club I belong to has not had Windrock on the annual ride schedule since 2004 mainly due to the unreasonable fees.

I have been to Harlan twice, and was looking forward to going back again this year. Now that is is going to cost me equal to Windrock, I may have to think it over again. There is no doubt that the Harlan fee system is great for the local folks, or for anyone living near by. However, it sure doesn't do much for the person who will only be visiting once or twice a year, and is coming from any distance away. Additionally, I really can't see this as doing much for the local economy as I can't imagine the local folks staying many nights in any of the nearby motels, or eating many meals in the local restaurants when home is close by. As for those of us who live far away, I can't help but wonder if maybe they really don't want us there. This discriminatory fee system sure as heck makes it look that way.

If you're actually trying to gain some revenue to support your trail system, I would suggest a $5 or $10 per day trail fee, for everyone. In my opinion that would be more than fair for all concerned regardless of where they came from. Also, it would most likely generate more revenue in the end. If you want to offer a yearly pass, or a monthly pass, in addition to a daily pass that is fine. However, at least make it look fair and reasonable. Currently, via your 31-day pass (the cheapest one), the locals pay $0.65 per day to ride your trails, folks like myself from far away end up paying $20 per day. Somehow this just doesn't look too inviting.

For the record, I am also emailing this response to Susan Haught.
 
Granny said:
This post has been up for almost a month now and has received very few comments. I assume most are satisfied with this fee system as proposed, and I will probably get flamed for my opinion, but to me this fee system is totally ridiculous, possibly even more so than Windrock's greedy fee system.

For me, Windrock and Harlan are both a 6 hour drive (each way). Normally, I will drive to on Friday, and from on Sunday. Saturday is the only day I will ride. Since my spouse normally accompanies me, my cost to enter Windrock for one day is $34. Add to that the cost of fuel, lodging, food, and other miscellaneous expenses and you have a darned expensive weekend. I will also mention that the club I belong to has not had Windrock on the annual ride schedule since 2004 mainly due to the unreasonable fees.

I have been to Harlan twice, and was looking forward to going back again this year. Now that is is going to cost me equal to Windrock, I may have to think it over again. There is no doubt that the Harlan fee system is great for the local folks, or for anyone living near by. However, it sure doesn't do much for the person who will only be visiting once or twice a year, and is coming from any distance away. Additionally, I really can't see this as doing much for the local economy as I can't imagine the local folks staying many nights in any of the nearby motels, or eating many meals in the local restaurants when home is close by. As for those of us who live far away, I can't help but wonder if maybe they really don't want us there. This discriminatory fee system sure as heck makes it look that way.

If you're actually trying to gain some revenue to support your trail system, I would suggest a $5 or $10 per day trail fee, for everyone. In my opinion that would be more than fair for all concerned regardless of where they came from. Also, it would most likely generate more revenue in the end. If you want to offer a yearly pass, or a monthly pass, in addition to a daily pass that is fine. However, at least make it look fair and reasonable. Currently, via your 31-day pass (the cheapest one), the locals pay $0.65 per day to ride your trails, folks like myself from far away end up paying $20 per day. Somehow this just doesn't look too inviting.

For the record, I am also emailing this response to Susan Haught.
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For me...it is a 3.5hr drive..I will 100% support the fee system. I know that the money invested is a good thing for the trails. When we go up, we rent a house for 2 or 3 days. Most of the houses sleep 10+ and we split up the cost(usually trickles down to about $20 bucks)
 
I do not mind the fee at all. I think if $20 was going to keep me from driving 6 hrs to wheel I would find a different hobby. Or you could wheel the evening you get there and cut you cost to $10 a day. If most of the locals are like the rest of us, they do not go everyday, let alone every weekend so I am pretty sure their cost is more than $.65 day. I like to plan two days of wheeling and at $10 that is a damn good bargain in my book. To each their own, these are just my thoughts.
 
I have to disagree Don. The trails at Harlan are awesome. For me, if I only go once a year, I am gonna ride two days, so $35 for two days is $17.50 a day, still way cheaper than Windrock. This year I have at least two trips planned, so that brings the cost down to $8.75 a day. Staying at the Campground, cost me $20 a night, electric, water a,d cable(that I won't use) The sites are big enough to double up on, and Debbie has said that it perfectly fine to "double up" on, and that cuts the cost in half.

So to have a place that offers as much degree of difficulty as Harlan does, I myself, think it's a bargain, at least for me. I can't wait to see the improvements to the trails system. We all know there are a lot of un-tapped resources within this property.
 
It's about an 8 hour drive for me, and I'll pay it. If it will help keep the doors open, no big deal for me. I'll get my usual cabin at Black Mountain Cabin rentals, and enjoy the weekend. I know im only up there a couple times a year, but that makes it doable. I'm just thrilled to have a place to wheel.


No problem here..!


J.R.
 
I cant but think if the entry fee is a deterrent the sport probably isnt for you.

Id pay $35 per weekend and it would still be the cheapest part of the trip.
 
I am glad to see this happen.. Hopefully the money will go back into the park and keep it prospering and open for years to come...
 
Its one of the better things to happen to help preserve and improve an amazing park for us to enjoy out sport. I will gladly spend the $$$.

Go up on a work weekend and see the kind of turnout and dedication that the KYMC and other wheelers put in and Im sure it will change your perspective.
 
Granny said:
This post has been up for almost a month now and has received very few comments. I assume most are satisfied with this fee system as proposed, and I will probably get flamed for my opinion, but to me this fee system is totally ridiculous, possibly even more so than Windrock's greedy fee system.

For me, Windrock and Harlan are both a 6 hour drive (each way). Normally, I will drive to on Friday, and from on Sunday. Saturday is the only day I will ride. Since my spouse normally accompanies me, my cost to enter Windrock for one day is $34. Add to that the cost of fuel, lodging, food, and other miscellaneous expenses and you have a darned expensive weekend. I will also mention that the club I belong to has not had Windrock on the annual ride schedule since 2004 mainly due to the unreasonable fees.

I have been to Harlan twice, and was looking forward to going back again this year. Now that is is going to cost me equal to Windrock, I may have to think it over again. There is no doubt that the Harlan fee system is great for the local folks, or for anyone living near by. However, it sure doesn't do much for the person who will only be visiting once or twice a year, and is coming from any distance away. Additionally, I really can't see this as doing much for the local economy as I can't imagine the local folks staying many nights in any of the nearby motels, or eating many meals in the local restaurants when home is close by. As for those of us who live far away, I can't help but wonder if maybe they really don't want us there. This discriminatory fee system sure as heck makes it look that way.

If you're actually trying to gain some revenue to support your trail system, I would suggest a $5 or $10 per day trail fee, for everyone. In my opinion that would be more than fair for all concerned regardless of where they came from. Also, it would most likely generate more revenue in the end. If you want to offer a yearly pass, or a monthly pass, in addition to a daily pass that is fine. However, at least make it look fair and reasonable. Currently, via your 31-day pass (the cheapest one), the locals pay $0.65 per day to ride your trails, folks like myself from far away end up paying $20 per day. Somehow this just doesn't look too inviting.

For the record, I am also emailing this response to Susan Haught.
Click to expand...

I think the fee is great. If it takes a fee to keep the park open and better it for everyone, then cool. maybe it will help to ensure that it will be around for years to come. And on the other hand asking for it to be a $5 to $10 dollor trail fee per day is ehh... how much do you plan on going? If it was $10 a day and you plan on more then 3 times a year then $35 for a year pass is saving you $$. It takes me about 6 hrs to get there and i have other fees like everyone else. i mean $35 wont even fill up my truck and i drive it everyday. If that $ keeps you from making the trip then so be it, your probably in the wrong sport. I say get on board with a good thing, nothings free, and give a little for a good cause.
 
I hate the freaking fee ! It was awesome when it was free and was like wheeling out west . They only pay for a green sticker thats 30 bucks for 2 years or something like that.....and thats for rigs that are not street legal . Anyways , I will pay but am not happy about it . I am very cheap as well . I feel like all the new private parks popping up are getting a little pricey and taking advantage of us . I'm gonna pay , remember I'm just whining :shaking:

I hate the parks that like to charge for each additional person and a one time fee as well . I think thats shady and they know we will pay . I remember when Tellico went from 5 to ten bucks and I was PO'ed . I thought , well its going back into the trails.....well we see where thats went . Heck , I could not believe Mtn city was 11 bucks the first time I went . I thought man....they had to charge 1 more dollar .

I blabbed enough , and from the responses my opinion means :poop::poop::poop: so flame on :D
 
The $20 fee is a cheap as running at URE for the weekend and the $35 is a great deal. You now send that much to go to the movies for 2 and buy some popcorn and a drink, but the trip to Harlan is much more likely to be remebered. Thanks for doing what it takes to keep one of the BEST places to wheel on the east coast open. In a time when they(the greenies) are closing trails at a break neck speed, we should be greatful for the small fee to enjoy this sport!
 
I thank that the fee is fine. I have never been but i here the trails at harlan are awesome.
I will pay the fee. I look forward to going to a good trail system.
 
Harlan is great! and the fee is only going to keep the place growing! I know I didnt see half of that place. So If we can help keep this place going then great!!!:driver:
 
Clearly my opinion on this matter didn't go over too good, but no one was nasty or stupid about it and I appreciate that. Thank you!

I received a very nice reply from Susan Haught explaining why the fee-system was done as it was, and now that I understand that better it makes a lot more sense to me.

I do want to point out that nowhere in my original post did I express any opposition to the yearly fee. My main point of opposition was to the 31-day fee versus no mention of a daily fee.

So-o-o-o... to quote Paul Harvey..."here's the rest of the story"...

FROM SUSAN:

First let me say your concerns are appreciated and I hope that you will continue to make Black Mountain Off-Road Adventure Area your destination for fun.



Many factors were taken into consideration when creating the guidelines and fees for this permit system. According to Kentucky State Law the way our trail system is setup we can not charge for less than 31 days. Therefore, that is why there is no one day or weekend pass. We have to follow and accordance with the KRS.



Before the fee system was enacted, the only money received by the Harlan County Outdoor Recreation Board Authority was from map and merchandise sales. Now that the land will be leased by the board and not through the Harlan County Fiscal Court, we need revenue to be able to fund this lease and meet all the requirements by the landowner such as maintenance and security. We also want to expand this trail system and develop new and exciting trails, improved campgrounds, and an overall better park for our visitors. This cannot happen without the proper funding. The board and many supporters are working very hard to make this park the best around.



I hope this gives you a better understanding of why this system was enacted. If you have any other questions or concerns please do not hesitate to contact me.

MY REPLY BACK TO SUSAN:

First of all, please allow me offer a sincere "thank you" for your quick and courteous response. If you have checked the forum link I sent in my previous email, you already know that I am badly outnumbered, and my opinion has not carried much weight at all. Fortunately, no one has threatened me over it yet.



I had no idea whatsoever of the KY laws that limited your flexibility in determining your fee system. Now, better understanding that situation, I am much more satisfied with the way it was done. Your yearly fee is more than generous and I highly compliment you on that. Also, I now understand your reasoning behind the 31-day fee.



Hopefully, I will be able to visit your area again this year. When I do, I believe I will simply refer to my trail-fee as a $35 donation. That way I won't have anything to grumble about at all.



Have a nice day, and thank you.

SUSAN'S FINAL REPLY:

I am thrilled to hear you plan on trying to join us again soon burning up the trails!! Permission is granted to post my reply and I thank you for adding this topic to your thread. I think many people have a misunderstanding on why the system was setup the way it was. I hope this will clear anything up for anyone who may have questions and if they still have any concerns I am always hear to answer any questions. Thank you again and hopefully I will see you on the trails.

THE CONCLUSION:

My questions have been answered. I now understand, and I am quite satisfied and happy with what they have done. Hopefully, anyone else who shared my thoughts, but didn't want to speak up will also be satisfied. I will definitely try to make my annual trip up there this year, maybe even an extra one. Also, I will happily pay for a yearly pass regardless of how many times I get to go.
 
Glad you found out the why's and so forth Don. I didn't know that either. I usually go up on a Thursday, so I can ride both Friday and Saturday. Since you are retired, you should be able to squeeze in an extra day to wheel.
I know having to put up with your mug an extra day is going above and beyond, but since you usually have the lovely Darlene with you, it makes it tolerable!
 
upnover said:
I know having to put up with your mug an extra day is going above and beyond, but since you usually have the lovely Darlene with you, it makes it tolerable!
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Hee-Hee... you're gonna give her a fat head! (She's grinnin' ear-to-ear) :lol:

My only problem in tagging along with you "extreme" guys is the fact that I'm just not equipped to keep up with you... and you know me well enough to know I don't like to be the one holding up the line. Some trip, when you don't think you want to break anything, invite me along. :driver:
 
I am pleased to announce that the Harlan County Outdoor Recreation Board signed a 25 year lease on the Black Mt. off road park yesterday. This was made possible because of the permit fee system. This long term lease also makes it possible for us to receive federal grants and coal severence tax money that we could not use before because of the lack of a long lease. We already have approx. $78,000.00 of those monies that we can use for trail maintenance. Work on the trails started today. The permit money can be used as matching funds for the grant money and for the everyday expenses that occur. We also have a grant in the works for total new signage for the park and for new trails to be completed.
We also have a grant that will be used to divert water from the Damination trail and for some culverts to improve water quality at the park.
I want to thank all of our many vistors from N.C. and this board for your support of our park. I think you will like the way the park is headed and you will see a big difference in years to come.
Thanks again,
Ken Crider
Harlan County Outdoor Recreation
Board Member
 
Great news. Thanks to all that are involved for all the hard work in and out of the park. Looking forward to the future. See you soon.:driver:
 
I'm really excited for you guys. Great work !
 
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