Chevy 60 strength

jrraw23 said:
I know Chevy front 60's are suppoosed to be a little less strong as the ford 60's.
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That's a very broad generalization, and not very correct unless you refer to the earlier 60's with the necked down inner shafts.

Regardless of the inners, the ford knuckles are weaker than the Chevy/Dodge, and have been known to break when used hard, but a pair of crane/deadenbear's will fix that right up.. :D
 
jrraw23 said:
I know Chevy front 60's are suppoosed to be a little less strong as the ford 60's. QUOTE]


First I ever heard of that. The CUCV Chevy version doesn't have the neck down like the civi models. I don't have the 35 spline outers, and I do thrash it. A friend only recently changed to 35 splines, but he had run his 44's for about 4 years before breaking one.
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i broke 3 30 spline outers on my ford 60, then i upgraded to 35 spline chromo's, then sold it. i have been told that the ring gear on the ford is stronger (reverse rotation) and that the knuckles on the chevy are stronger. it is a matter of opinion on the neck down shafts, i have heard many different views. some say the neck down 35 spline inners on the ford are stronger because they can twist and deflect back, others say the non-neck down are stronger. i never broke a neck down inner on my ford 60 even with chromo 35 spline outers.
 
high pinion 60's (front) like in Fords run on the drive side of the ring gear, chevy's low pinion run on the coast side. That's probably what is meant by "weaker"...regaurdless I've never seen anyone break a ring gear in a chevy 60, I have however seen pinions break in both models. Ford knuckles have less "meat" on them than chevy's...however, I've sold quite a few chevy Dedenbears to people who have cracked them. If you are going to run 44's and have a healthy motor I would suggest chromo inners, 35 spline chromo outters, drive flanges and upgrade knuckles. Understand now why so many people on a budget run rockwells? You end up with 3500 to 4k in a nice front 60 and that's before you get steering.
 
BIGWOODY said:
high pinion 60's (front) like in Fords run on the drive side of the ring gear, chevy's low pinion run on the coast side. That's probably what is meant by "weaker".
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100% true, but... I went through this time and time again when I was considering a FJ-80 front axle, which is also high-pinion.

It's only stronger (drive side) going forward, but on the weak (coast) side backing up... Personally, I always seem to put the most stress on front-end parts when backing up... usually nose down, too. Std. cut gears are stronger in that situation.

But like Woody said.. I've never heard of a front 60 ring gear failure from ford, chevy or dodge.. (in a front axle app)
 
Thanks for all the info guys, just what I needed.

As far as the Ford being stronger than Chevy comment thats just what I had heard from a couple of different people so I kinda assumed it was that way because I havn't heard different but it seems that they both (the ford and chevy 60's) have there pro's and cons.

The reason Im considering 60 front is because every time I go to price out doing Rockwells I always find more and more things that need to be done and it ends up adding to alot to swap in decent rockwells. Feel free to give me your responses to that because thats kinda the questions i keep asking myself:

Is it worth it to Run 1 tons or should you just go strait to Rockwells?

Here's a list of the pros and cond Iv'e found when looking at Rockwells:

- Rockwells almost all need to be rebuilt b4 running em (thats what I've heard correct me if I'm wrong)
- Then you have to get the Brakes and I would need discs because I want to be able to drive on the road and pinion brakes create too much heat for that
- Then you have to figure out the steering and almost need to at least have hydraulic assist (which I already happen to have so thats a plus)
- Then here's the real Kicker: Wheels, everyone has told me you pretty much have to get custom wheels made and thats almost like buying an extra set of Tires, granted you can peice them together yourself as somebody on the board has done but I don't trust my self to fabbing a rim thats true, not only that if I were running 1 tons I could get some steel rims for like 100 and thats that, also due to the disc brakes you have to run larger wheels and that costs even more
- A benifit of Rockwells is not having to worry about pinion angle sucking and having to have super high angle driveshafts
- Also on the front Rockwell I can put the pinoin on the pass side and run the Dana 300 I've had sitting in my garage with twin sticks (I guess it could also be acomplished with the Chevy 60)
- Rockwells Don't need to be regeared like 1 tons might since they are already super low



Like I said by all means please feel free to comment on what I just listed, and what your experince with the two choices are. I have little to no experience/knowledge on Rockwells except what I've read online here and there. The main two things that concern me pricewise on the rockwells is doing the Disc Brakes and then wheels, then theres also the needing to get them rebuilt factor
 
Re-read bigwoody's post, there's good info in there. Only Dibble has spent over $4k on a steering rockwell. :lol:
 
It's only stronger (drive side) going forward, but on the weak (coast) side backing up... Personally, I always seem to put the most stress on front-end parts when backing up... usually nose down, too. Std. cut gears are stronger in that situation.
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This is why I have never understood the whole reverse rotation argument from a strength standpoint. If you are climbing, most of the traction, and therefore load, is on the downhill wheels. Whether you are backing up or going forward, a standard rotation is stronger.
 
*Dana 60s, Rockwells, etc., all used, should be looked at before running them. Just because its a Rockwell doesn't mean it needs to be rebuilt before use, Dana 60s are just as bad about needing new parts, as is with most any other USED axle

*Disk brakes for the Rockwell are not that expensive, especially considering what you pay for a used Dana 60 that usually needs some brake attention (especially if its from a junk yard).

*Wheels... These are not hard to come by. A set of used Humvee wheels are cheap. Re-center with whatevr center you wany, and voila! Double beadlocks!!! Let me know if you need info on the H1 wheel setups and new centers:smokin:

*Drawback of Rockwells is you must run a large tire because of limited gears for the them, 6.17:1 I think, thats pretty low unless you plan on a 44" or larger tire...

*Even if you plan on running 44" tires, the D60 doesn't hold up well with a large V8. In stock form, the D60 will not handle large HP and large tires very long. For ultimate strength and longevity, chromos and 35 spline outers and CTMs (or equivalent) will be your best option.

*Rockwells are fairly cheap. I remember when a front and rear take-out used to sell for $600. If you look around, you can still find them like that, much cheaper than the $1200 price tag on most decent D60 fronts.

If you have big meats, High HP, and are on a budget, I'd recommend the Rockwells. In the end, I think you'd spend less $$$ for more strength (and weight)

Rob
 
Thanks for the info, yea i'v read big woodys post but I probably need to go over it agian

The only thing that I have found is that now rockwells are selling for the same price as a set of 1 tons, I mean I have never seen a pair for less than 1200 here or on pirate (allthough I don't look at pirate that much) so thers no real difference in buying the two unless you can find a really good deal I guess.

Also I have been told several times that Take outs are a bad route to go because they are called take outs for a reason, something went wrong with the axle so they were removed or "taken out" of the truck because something went wrong which means you could be buying a busted axle and not know it tell you get it home later.

Disc brakes do seem to be pretty expensive to me, I have been told it costs about 500 to 600 when all is said and done from people who have done em b4.

I would do the humvee wheel thing but I have heard that its not very good to run a tire wider than 15" on those rims and I want run something much wider than that, correct me if i'm wrong there Rob or if there is a cheap way to widen them, I have seen someone who welded two cut in half rims together to get the width they needed once, cant remember where or if thats very good idea

As far as gearing I'm more worried about not having anough gear running that size tires since im pretty sure Im gonna be running (hopefully still in the at the air at the moment) a Ford with 400/C6/205 combo I'm actually worried im gonna have to drop another 1400 on the 203 doubler, the size tire I want to run is at the least 44's maybe 49's or 52's but I hate how skinny the 52's are, plus ive heard they suck from alot of people.

Like I said the main things that seem like they are gonna burn my wallet on Rockwells are still:
-the neccesity of a rebuild factor, Roughly ~ $I have no idea
-New custom wheels, Rougly ~ $800 (im gonna do beadlocks if i get custom wheels)
-and The disc brakes. Roughly ~ $600

If I were to go with 1 tons:
- the brakes and wheels wouldnt even be a factor Roughly ~ $100 for wheels brakes already there
-only maybe the rebuild thing might be a factor, Roughly ~ $ I dont know
-only drawback of 1 tons is possible lack of strength for my application,
-and having to regear them. Roughly ~ $1200 for regear, lack of strength $ ???

Plus I'm sure im missing some random stuff, and Rob If the hummer rims wont work can you do custom wheels otherwise? (i know you can do beadlocks)
 
If you are looking for Rockwells, stay off of the 4x4 forums. Go look at local surpluss stores, or better yet, local surpluss from the military. Just 2 days ago I saw a CUCV (w/D60/14bolt, etc. etc.) go for less than $600...

Ya just gotta look around and keep your eyes out for a deal. If you are really thinking Rockwell, let me know. I used to buy/sell military surpluss vehicles and have some contacts:D

A D60 take out is the same as a rockwell take out. Basically, it means its used, not rebuilt. It was "taken out". could be from any number of reasons. Usually its from a truck thats wrecked, blown motor/trans/junkyard; not specifically because the axle is bad...'

If you really want some decent rockwells with Detroits, in working order, with disk brakes and wheels, $2000-----> http://production.criterion-solutions.com/nckrawlers/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1463

Not a bad deal (cheaper than built 1 tons and stronger). See, just keep your eyes open:D

I don't see any problems with running wide tires on the H1 wheels. I used to run a 16.50 wide bogger on 6.75" wide rims, on the street with no problems. They were ballooned a little, but lower psi fixed that and they rode awesome on my CJ...


Rob
 
Wow thats an awsome deal on rockwells all ready to go, if i had 2000 right now Id buy em, but id have to sell my other axles first (the fully loaded 44/14 bolt combo)

I mean if you think the hummer rims can handle the width of a larger 44"+ tire then heck yea I'd go with those cause there pretty cheap and like you said they have double beadlocks

I guess I'll go ahead and list up those axles I have for sale thou because I know I'm not gonna be runnin em wether I keep my jeep or not.
 
Rich, you know Dan? I haven't heard from him in about 2 years. Tell him Scott Waters (big black Jeep) from Daytona/Riddle says hi.

Rick, stop back by when I'm home, I'll dig out receipts for what I have in the front brakes. I probably could have done it even cheaper with used rotors and calipers from Muscle Motorsports.

Scott
 
jrraw23 said:
Wow thats an awsome deal on rockwells all ready to go, if i had 2000 right now Id buy em, but id have to sell my other axles first (the fully loaded 44/14 bolt combo)
I mean if you think the hummer rims can handle the width of a larger 44"+ tire then heck yea I'd go with those cause there pretty cheap and like you said they have double beadlocks
I guess I'll go ahead and list up those axles I have for sale thou because I know I'm not gonna be runnin em wether I keep my jeep or not.
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Hummer wheels with 44 tsl's/boggers, no problems.
If you need to drive on the road, you need to stay with ton's. Wheel brakes for rocks are not cheap. You don't have to get all the axle upgrades (35 spline) until you start breaking stuff (have to wheel it first:D ) Most junkyard axles I've seen only needed minor stuff-grease, brake pads, lockouts, etc.
All you need to know about rockwells.
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=313836&highlight=rockwell+links
 
Rick, stop back by when I'm home, I'll dig out receipts for what I have in the front brakes. I probably could have done it even cheaper with used rotors and calipers from Muscle Motorsports.
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Yea man, wish you werent so far away thou, dang Mooresville to Concord is a trekwith gas prices today, lol. But yea I'll get with you on the brakes and especially steering at some point, like I said I need to sell those axles I have and figure out weather im gonna run the jeep or something else as a platform for the Rockwells

Hummer wheels with 44 tsl's/boggers, no problems.
If you need to drive on the road, you need to stay with ton's. Wheel brakes for rocks are not cheap. You don't have to get all the axle upgrades (35 spline) until you start breaking stuff (have to wheel it first ) Most junkyard axles I've seen only needed minor stuff-grease, brake pads, lockouts, etc.
All you need to know about rockwells.
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showt...rockwell+links
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Yea I'll probably end up going with the Hummer rims then, as far as driving on the road with it i mean just for when I feel like it kinda road driving, not as a daily driver or anything like that at all. More for like goin down the street to Brusters when they have there weekly car shows to get some wows from people :driver:


I'm toying with the idea of rear steer but thats gonna make my price list rise dramaticaly but I figure if im gonna go throu all this i might as well do the dang thing but it all depends on what kinda deals i can find that will make my final decision.
 
.........1400.00 203 doubler.........

Man if you need to run one let me know............I dont think I know anyone thats spent 1400 on a doubler project........just FYI, it can be done WAAAAAAY cheaper...:huggy:
 
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