Chipped Ring Gear Teeth. remember this post from sept.

Discussion in 'Axles / Suspension / Tires' started by storeman, Dec 18, 2013.

  1. storeman

    storeman Known by Few

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2007
    Location:
    Whiteville nc
    :confused::( I got the rear fixed back before Dixie Run I hope it is right. So last Saturday I take my

    Jeep to the CTB Christmas party ride at Scott fields Big Creek property, the very first climb I loose 3 or 4 teeth on the front Dana 30 Ring Gear. The Back now the front it has got to be related.

    The thing that bothers me is the shop that fixed the rear in September said that the set up

    looked right and it must have been something else . The original guy who set them up is no longer in business. That goes against a lot of what was sad hear on the
    board. If y'all are right what I have now in the back could be wrong. IDK what I am going to do

    at this point. I have talked to a shop in charlotte but that is a long way 3.5 hours and don't know him either.

    I feel like when I have the front done I need to have the rear checked out to make sure it is right.

    Maybe Doug and I need to take a shot a the front ourselves. My Status now Broken and

    Confused . I will post some pictures tonight they are on my laptop at home but there was

    one whole tooth missing by it self than half way around the destructive 3 to 4 tooth loss.
    The Spartan held true and I finished the day limping along.

     
  2. J.C.

    J.C. Volunteer Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2005
    Location:
    Greensboro, NC
    At least we now know what the problem was! I would definitely get a competent, trusted R&P setup tech to check the rear when the front is fixed!
     
  3. ord.sgt.26NC

    ord.sgt.26NC Gott mit uns!

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2005
    Location:
    Goldsboro
    unless you have access to the right tools or the money to spend on them...DON"T DO IT YOURSELF!!!! I just went through this on my front 30. To be sure there is a shop from Whiteville to Wilmington that can do it. Hell,take it to ECGS up in Raliegh and get it done. If you decide to go with ECGS,we could work something out on getting it there and back.
     
  4. Joe J.

    Joe J. Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2009
    Location:
    King, NC
    E.C.G.S.

    and done.


    sent from my jeep on some trail in the middle of nowhere
     
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  5. storeman

    storeman Known by Few

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2007
    Location:
    Whiteville nc
    the best I have now
     

    Attached Files:

  6. VortecJeep

    VortecJeep Powered by Uranium-235

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2005
    Location:
    Concord, NC
    Take it to East Coast Gear Supply. I shipped my 9" centersection to them to gear and install the Detroit, they shipped it back, and have never had any problems.
     
  7. 77GreenMachine

    77GreenMachine Phillip Talton

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2010
    Location:
    Trinity, NC
    Another vote for ECGS. Too bad you can't just ship it to them like a 9" third member. I would also consider a R&P with a lifetime warranty like we talked about. Also like someone else mentioned and we talked about on the phone, gears have to be set up perfect to last. Especially when you are being spotted by Doug who's constant instructions are "back up, back up, ok there's your line. Now nail it!"


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  8. BUCKEYE PERFORMANCE INC.

    BUCKEYE PERFORMANCE INC. BUCKEYE PERFORMANCE INC.

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2006
    Location:
    swannanoa
    I dont know who setup the gears so im in no way defending them but is their any possibility that you found the breaking point of a dana 30 gear set?
    I cant tell the pattern due to reflection but it looks like their was a full pattern and the whole tooth is broke off suggesting that full contact was made befor the destruction.
    Had the pattern been off the tooth would not be completly gone in the center.
    If ecgs is within a reasonable distance I would take it to them.

    Buckeye Performance Inc.
    828-779-2242
     
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  9. storeman

    storeman Known by Few

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2007
    Location:
    Whiteville nc
    Quote
    is their any possibility that you found the breaking point of a dana 30 gear set?

    Quote
    Especially when you are being spotted by Doug who's constant instructions are "back up, back up, ok there's your line. Now
    nail it!"

    Quote
    Too bad you can't just ship it to them like a 9" third member


    You all have good points. I guess my thinking was do you need more than a 30 on 33's? I really have not planed on bigger
    tires.

    Doug does push to the limit that is his style. I tell him he is break proof with a 3200 pound Sammy on Toyotas that
    would be like a 4300 pound jeep on 60's IMO

    we say we rock crawl but a lot of times that ant so just look at my video post.

    I am going to have the 30 fixed and check the rear. If it is determined the 30 was right I will have to give my wheelin
    style some thought. At heart I like to consider my self a rockcrawler which is how I prefer to wheel. not a beater. But when you go places like Dixie run
    with a friend like Doug and a good friend don't get me wrong. When we line up for the trails he wants to follow the buggies and I want to follow him even though sometimes I know it is not a good idea and I end up pushing it I know. But we have had some fun. It may be costing me now IDK
     
  10. Chris_Keziah

    Chris_Keziah Joe Dirt

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2010
    Location:
    Winston-Salem
    Could also look at Carolina Truggies or Tarheel4WD for new gears. Would be a little closer than ECGS.
     
  11. Joe J.

    Joe J. Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2009
    Location:
    King, NC
    Have you considered taking Scotts 101 class?

    sent from my jeep on some trail in the middle of nowhere
     
  12. BUCKEYE PERFORMANCE INC.

    BUCKEYE PERFORMANCE INC. BUCKEYE PERFORMANCE INC.

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2006
    Location:
    swannanoa
    33's on a dana 30 is just fine the trick is knowing when to back off while doing the "bump" watch your vid very close and you will see when your front bounced. That bounce is probably what broke the gears.

    Buckeye Performance Inc.
    828-779-2242
     
  13. flatblackzj

    flatblackzj Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2011
    Location:
    maiden, nc
    just out of curiosity, what was the manufacturer of the gearset? looking at it, from what i can tell in the pictures, the contact on both the drive and coast flanks looks good, the setup appears to have been right. it would be interesting to check the hardness and the heat treat case depth on the gearset. that being said, did you ever bounce on the gas really hard or go from spinning hard to suddenly getting bite? a hard shock load could cause damage like this as well
     
  14. Croatan_Kid

    Croatan_Kid More parts than a 9 dollar chicken bucket!

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2007
    Location:
    New Bern
    My first thought was just cheap or weak gears and a little bit of shock load. If I were you, I'd save my lunch money for something like a 44 front and an 8.8 or 9" rear and be done with it. Too strong isn't a bad thing!
     
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  15. storeman

    storeman Known by Few

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2007
    Location:
    Whiteville nc
    I watched the video over and over last night . I think I see what you are talking about. It is that last bump just before I run off to the right. It does not look like the tire stopped but maybe it was shock load I guess all it takes is just a second to do the damage. It seems weird that in 7 years of this I have never broke a front axle. I have found thrown joint caps on a couple of post ride inspections. We Replaced the joints and spot welded the caps . Just before the Harlan trip last spring
    I noticed some of the welds were broke and the cap had spun a bit. So I ordered some 27 spline Alloy USA shafts and joints.
    The last thing I wanted was to haul my mess 500 miles and break. Do you think the new shafts made the ring gear
    the new weak point.

    Also can gears fatigue over time and become weak or do they just fail all of a sudden ?? Because I am certain I have done this type of bump before.

    Thanks for all the responses
     
  16. jankoid

    jankoid Rock Humper

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2011
    Location:
    Albemarle
    Since you are doing gears anyway, get a XJ HP30 and swap over everything from your lp30. You'll have a much stronger gear set that way.
     
  17. storeman

    storeman Known by Few

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2007
    Location:
    Whiteville nc
    From Joe Jones Have you considered taking Scotts 101 class?

    I may should sense I posted his banner add in my Video . I like Scott he is a great guy . I am positive I can always learn something more. I don't consider myself a natural when it comes to picking a good line on something like above. My favorite
    type of trail is rocky frame twisting dry river beds like Crawford's cry Harlan or the fun part of dickie bell and the long hill climb on Daniel. My weak point is Ledges when I broke a rear 44 a few years ago it was bouncing on a ledge ,skinny pedal
    happy. It happened so fast it was crazy.
     
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  18. ord.sgt.26NC

    ord.sgt.26NC Gott mit uns!

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2005
    Location:
    Goldsboro
    learn the limitations of your rig or pay the price over and over. Bigger rigs than you will run you up on a snag everytime if YOU don't keep YOURSELF in check.Another thing.Stop letting Doug spot for you!!! I had a spotter one time that caused me to spatter spider gears in my dana25 and twist my rear driveshaft in 2 all at once a few years back trying to get up on the first ledge on daniel. Asked about a noise I heard and all I got out of him was "dunno but if you hit it one more time...". Sound familiar?
     
  19. storeman

    storeman Known by Few

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2007
    Location:
    Whiteville nc
    learn the limitations of your rig or pay the price over and over. Bigger rigs than you will run you up on a snag everytime if YOU don't keep YOURSELF in check.Another thing.Stop letting Doug spot for you!!! I had a spotter one time that caused me to spatter spider gears in my dana25 and twist my rear driveshaft in 2 all at once a few years back trying to get up on the first ledge on daniel. Asked about a noise I heard and all I got out of him was "dunno but if you hit it one more time...". Sound familiar?


    You have a good point It is hard some times to keep
    Yourself on check You get caught up in the
    Moment and that 1 min of fame is gone and forgotten


    I am going to look at my old ring gear from the rear
    And see if there is any info on there I will post that
    Up tonight


    I ran 31's the first 4 years I started doing this and wheeled hard
    With no issues. Only when I went to 33's did I have trouble
    They are quite a bit heaver and wider on the 10 inch
    Wheels plus they seem to b a little Taller than the average
    33 . they r Made by interco.
    I think the rear44 is ok size wise but may consider
    Something else for the front If I do I will not fix the 30
    And just sell the alloy shafts and locker.
     
  20. Joe J.

    Joe J. Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2009
    Location:
    King, NC
    Like someone said earlier, you might as well get a hi pinion d30 from a Cherokee and swap in your locker and chromos since you have to have new gears anyway. I think the HP d30 is stronger while moving forward but not as strong in reverse as a standard d30. I dunno don't quote me on that. But its something to look into.

    sent from my jeep on some trail in the middle of nowhere
     
  21. jeepinmatt

    jeepinmatt Still Fat

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2005
    Location:
    Stanley, NC
    That is correct.
     
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  22. 77GreenMachine

    77GreenMachine Phillip Talton

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2010
    Location:
    Trinity, NC
    Maybe you bandaid this thing up with a new R&P and consider a full width D44 in the near future? You figure the money you have in a 30 and still have a weak carrier and gears, the money you could sink into it and still do this again at some point may be worth the upgrade. It took a lot of waiting for the right deals but my 44/9 swap costed about $600 total after selling my previous set up. And with Doug's fab skills you could easily do it with some junk yard sourced axles and have a very solid set up for a good price.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  23. shawn

    shawn running dog lackey of the oppressor class Administrator

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2005
    Location:
    Raleigh, NC
    Fluke. Maybe bad gear set, maybe bad setup, maybe too many shock loads, maybe just a Dana 30.

    I'm with the other guys... If you have to buy a new R&P anyway, you'll get some strength advantage from a HP axle. You could even have the gear setup done in the bare housing and then swap it over at your leisure. Or stick with what you've got.
     
  24. WARRIORWELDING

    WARRIORWELDING Owner opperator Of WarriorWelding LLC.

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2008
    Location:
    Chillin, Hwy 64 Mocksville NC
    I agree with the above. Either change your wheeling driving style or upgrade to bigger diffs in general. I broke some stock 44 stuff with just 35 tsls it was all bad timing and the right foot. 33's and a 30 will net the same result. Your axle upgrade most likely netted the ring gear the new weak link. Your probably lucky you didn't explode the carrier. Stock spiders probably would have let loose otherwise. Build better and save on rebuilds for the life of the Jeep, just be patient and build once to suit your needs and style. Shock loading any hardened part near its yield strength will deteriorate its ability to handle loads. Think about it like hammering on mild steel. It doesn't do much at first but after repeated blows you get results. Hardened material is the same just takes longer and the break is more unpredictable, because with hardening you loose ductility. This is why a cryogenic treated gear just fails huge when it goes. Its so hard its has almost no ductility (meaning ability to flex a little). Flexible gears would just wear into mush. Burnt, galled, deformed gear faces, or toasted gears are usually bad set ups accompanied with noise and vibrations. Sheared teeth are mechanical damage in nature. Meaning too much force, torque, skinny pedal, horse power, wheel hop, tire size...................you get the idea. Poor set ups have tells that show up before boom! Chipped teeth are damage front the same type of loading just not as harsh to penetrate past the hardened gear tips and face. An improper set up with way to little gear mesh will net crazy backlash numbers that are hard to shim out. Most of the time to little contact will howl and vibrate due to the teeth not sliding past each other correctly. The pinion shape in nature must slide past the ring gear. Its do to its very steep helical cut. This is why backlash is needed in some amount to allow for lubrication of the gear face. Tighter back lash will gain some strength (most debate this cuts down on shock loading) but to tight you loose oiling capability and build heat. Sometimes to the point of gradually annealing the gear face and making it weak over time. Way tight, instant heat and degradation (low millage burnt gears).
     
  25. ord.sgt.26NC

    ord.sgt.26NC Gott mit uns!

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2005
    Location:
    Goldsboro
    I have a couple of busted teeth in my front dana25 from the spiders granading.A piece of a tooth was hidden way in the back and it didn't come out when I repaired it.Next wheelin trip and it came out and wedged between the housing and teeth and broke them off.I wanna fix it but thats been 4 years ago and it's still hanging in there.Did you have some earlier damage that might have left a chunk of metal in there?
     

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