Codes on a 24valve...warranty work...

Will Carter

Will Carter

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 23, 2005
Location
Burlington
Figured there's plenty of diesel guys on here that could probably help me out with my simple question.

I'm getting ready to take my truck in (2002, 2500, 24valve, nv5600) to attempt to have my injection pump replaced under warranty. It has 125,000 mile on it...

Factory warranty manual says the Cummins 5/100K warranty starts AFTER the Crysler 3/36K has expired.

Long story short, stealerships and DC try to say the Cummins warranty starts when you drive the truck off the lot...yes, people have done this and it's been documented on many diesel forums.

So i'm preparing for my little battle.

The previous owner of my truck claimed to have never done any high performance mods of anykind to the truck. About six months later, when working under the hood, I notice a nice little plug where a pyro gauge used to be...so...this truck obviously had something on it for pyro guage to be necessary...

So...to my question...I know how to check codes with the key turns...it shows 2 codes (can't recall what the numbers are but they're the 'your VP44 is a paperweight now' codes)...

I got TSB off a diesel sight that explains what to check for (if your a dealership) to see if the injection system has been tampered (put a box on it) with...it lists a bunch of possible codes to look for and wires to check...

Would these codes show up on the key turn method or would you have to scan tool it to see them? Can we delete them if they do show codes that would indicate it had been tampered with?
 
With our scanners I can tell not only the codes and programming modules, but also the date and time they were installed.

Dodge, does not have this same ability.

Try it at Dodge, if it dont work, dont get it near Cummins or we will cough *bullshit*
 
Check to see if the pump wire has been tapped...that's a pretty good indicator. Having a pyro gauge certainly doesn't mean it's been really modded. And just because it's had some power adders doesn't mean your warranty is void either...
 
So are these codes able to be deleted permenantly?....temperarily? (until the motor runs again and triggers them again?)

I'm sure this has been asked hundreds of times...
 
OK, I think you will have a problem with the warrenty and may want to look at it a different way. Maybe take it to one of the guys on here the work on them.
You have no warrenty, Read all the small print and look at a second time. You have a 3-36 or 7-70 warenty from Dodge and then there is a 5 year 100 miles on the motor. What you read was the motor is covered after the Factory Dodge warenty to 5-100. There is also small print that takes it to 7-100 on the motor, if you are still under the 100k but not over 7 years. Some time back someone pushed them on the Dodge 7 year but motor 5 year so they changes and sent out info that you could use it to the max 7-100 on the motor only. I was part of that push because I had problems with mine at 6.5 and 90+k I was out of the 7-70 from Dodge (miles) and was told I was out of the 5-100 (Years), after that it changed to 7-100, up to 100k if under 7 years. In the last few years they dropped the 7-70 for a 3-36 and that makes all the current a 5-100 what ever is first.
As for the codes you can turn the key on of 3 times and it will give you codes. My 96 and the 03 do it and I have done that on trucks in the 99-01 range to if I remember the years.
The big thing about the AFTER Part you talk of is that dodge will pay and deal with you on the 3-36 part and Cummins after that up to 5-100. You should pay nothing up to 36k then 100$ after that up to the 100k.
You can give it a try but its a shot in the dark at best, but I would not go in for a battle, as you say, they may help you if you work it and are nice and ask them to see if Dodge or Cummins would at least help you on it. If you go in to battle at first I would bet they will charge you good money just to look at it and see if they can help you some and then charge you more then you could have it done someone on the board.
Also remember that DC has sold and the people don't care about the old stuff and are playing under a new set of rules, even if they just got DC they are more worried about there stuff and not stuff from the old owner of Dodge....
Also Dodge has an out in the fine print, something about the warrenty being for new owners and may transfer to second owner If all the BS is done correct ......

Just my 2 cents
 
Maybe it's because it's 2:30 am...but I read the first part of your explination of my warranty...and still have no idea what you're getting at...
There's no small print anywhere in the book that I recall...I'll double check though...
There is, however, VERY BOLD print that sums up that this document (the warranty booklet with the truck) is final...read: it doesn't matter what some computer at a dealership says...after all...they changed how they worded it in the computer in 2006 so i've read...

I left the warranty book outside, but, in plain English it says that (rough quote) in Cummins equipped vehicles an additional 5 year 100,000 mile warranty is included after the experation of the 36,000 3 year warranty offered on all Dodge Ram models.

Again, rough quote...but after reading on forum to double check my warranty information I found it almost funny that anyone could assume their total warranty ended at 5 year 100K. (I thought it did anyway)

Where does one find this 'small print' you speak of? Seriously, I want to be as informed as possible before I go in there...


Oh, and it's a battle, I'm gonna kick their door in at 7:00AM demanding service now and no later...!...


Bottom line is that DC has payed for others thinking the same way I am. Hopefully if I'm persistant enough i can save myself 2800 bucks (which is how much they charge to do it...which is a joke)...


I hope to be able to get over there at some point tomorrow...it's always fun dealing with Ross Crysler anyway...

I'll keep you posted...
 
I agree indy it does state that in the manuals and alot of people have fought what the dealerships have said on that part and won but its a long rd. But its the way they worded it such as the cummins engine warranty doesnt start till the end of the 3/36 and is an additional 5/100,000 on the engine. But if it has ever had any programmers on it or a performance items i highly doubt they will warranty any of it or would be a very long drawn out thing. I knew i was gonna be my own warranty on mine when I bought it. no intentions of staying stock.
 
Long story short...They wont warranty it... It wont show any codes. The only way it will be visible would be a spot on the Sel. Wire.

If you have any more questions call me
 
braxton357 said:
And just because it's had some power adders doesn't mean your warranty is void either...
Click to expand...
it does in most cases I've ever heard of.........ie: I wouldn't buy a truck new or under factory warrenty and "power it up" at all. The dealer looks for reasons to weasel out of paying warrenty claims and I've heard multiple stories about the dodge dealers doing just that when the truck in question has had mods. I've got a BMW M5 on the way from the dealer in Greensboro (under warrenty) that has had very few mods and they denied coverage.
 
Indy Will said:
Maybe it's because it's 2:30 am...but I read the first part of your explination of my warranty...and still have no idea what you're getting at...
There's no small print anywhere in the book that I recall...I'll double check though...
There is, however, VERY BOLD print that sums up that this document (the warranty booklet with the truck) is final...read: it doesn't matter what some computer at a dealership says...after all...they changed how they worded it in the computer in 2006 so i've read...
I left the warranty book outside, but, in plain English it says that (rough quote) in Cummins equipped vehicles an additional 5 year 100,000 mile warranty is included after the experation of the 36,000 3 year warranty offered on all Dodge Ram models.
Again, rough quote...but after reading on forum to double check my warranty information I found it almost funny that anyone could assume their total warranty ended at 5 year 100K. (I thought it did anyway)
Where does one find this 'small print' you speak of? Seriously, I want to be as informed as possible before I go in there...
Oh, and it's a battle, I'm gonna kick their door in at 7:00AM demanding service now and no later...!...
Bottom line is that DC has payed for others thinking the same way I am. Hopefully if I'm persistant enough i can save myself 2800 bucks (which is how much they charge to do it...which is a joke)...
I hope to be able to get over there at some point tomorrow...it's always fun dealing with Ross Crysler anyway...
I'll keep you posted...
Click to expand...

Good on you, hope you get something for free.
If you got the truck you would know what I talk about and the papers you sign. Most all info in the books say "subject to change" and "see dealer or call 1-800 foor more info"
 
So dealership didn't tell me to go to hell. Said to bring it in and pay the 80 buck diagnostic test and they'd call chrysler and tell them my story...

...obviously the said they can't gurantee me anything but it's worth the 80 dollar gamble to me...
 
As I read it: Small print
Also are you reading it in the owners manual or warranty manual Most new trucks come with both for the most part.

"In a truck equipped with a Cummins Diesel Engine, ONLY the following engine parts and componets are covered for 5 years or 100,000 miles, which ever occurs first."
Also
"As a truck owner, you should be aware that DCMC may deny your warranty coverage if your truck or part has failed due to abuse, neglect, improper maintenance or UNAPPROVED MODIFICATIONS."

Plus all the law stuff at the end they always add in the books.
 
Here's the biggy that people are getting them on:

Directly from my '2002 Ram Truck Warranty Information' Manual - "If your truck is equipped with a Cummins Diesel Engine, the Cummins Diesel Engine Limited Warranty begins at the end of the 3/36 Basic Limited Warranty period, and covers the cost of repairing those parts of your truck engine listed..."

About 12 parts catagories are mentioned, number 4 is 'fuel injection pump and injectors'

Getting ready to call DC's 800 number...this ought to be fun...


If this were a $200 pump I wouldn't even try to go through with this ... but if we can pull it off...it'll save me at least $1200 bucks when it's all said and done...at least...


EDIT: Oh yeah...if they find the pump's been tampered with by the previous owner (cause I haven't touched it) then I'll just drop the whole issue there...I would definately see that as my problem....no one has taped that wire on the pump though...
 
Indy Will said:
Here's the biggy that people are getting them on:
Directly from my '2002 Ram Truck Warranty Information' Manual - "If your truck is equipped with a Cummins Diesel Engine, the Cummins Diesel Engine Limited Warranty begins at the end of the 3/36 Basic Limited Warranty period, and covers the cost of repairing those parts of your truck engine listed..."
About 12 parts catagories are mentioned, number 4 is 'fuel injection pump and injectors'
Click to expand...


just because it doesn't begin until the 3/36 runs out, doesn't really mean the clock wasn't running the whole time...

I still bet the 100K is "total" miles, not miles after 36K...it's just that the Dodge warranty is in effect for the 36K, and the Cummins covers it from 36K to 100K...

Greg
 
Why would you need 2 warranties at one time?




Little disapointed at the replies here fellas...figured everyone would want to see a DC get screwed over a vp44 problem...


Going to see Mr. Eggers in the morning...


On hold for the 'Senior Staff Member' of the claims department now...seem to have gotten a little further than a few people who've tried it...assuming this guy/gal picks up...
 
I just replaced the injection pump on my 2000 2500.

Not a big ordeal work wise, just money wise.

I ended up going with this pump http://www.bluechipdiesel.com/productpricing.html

Very good customer service, the guy really knows his VP44's. I went with the special x version and am getting 4 mpg better.
I also added a Fass lift pump system at the same time

Good luck getting it warrantied, the stock OEM injection pumps suck the big one, my truck is at 120xxx and already on the 3rd pump. Fedex had such a problem with them that they sued bosch and made them redesign the computer on the pump. The new pump i got has all 12 updates and the redesigned computer and should be good to go for another 200,000 hopefully
 
sha_ba_do_bang said:
I just replaced the injection pump on my 2000 2500.
Not a big ordeal work wise, just money wise.
I ended up going with this pump http://www.bluechipdiesel.com/productpricing.html
Very good customer service, the guy really knows his VP44's. I went with the special x version and am getting 4 mpg better.
I also added a Fass lift pump system at the same time
Good luck getting it warrantied, the stock OEM injection pumps suck the big one, my truck is at 120xxx and already on the 3rd pump. Fedex had such a problem with them that they sued bosch and made them redesign the computer on the pump. The new pump i got has all 12 updates and the redesigned computer and should be good to go for another 200,000 hopefully
Click to expand...

All new VP-44's are using the complete fed-ex electronics.
There the only parts available for the pump! The special X Version the Pump control module is the only diffrence , it has a little more timing and a touch more fuel! Everyone is trying to compete with the new monster pumps, but in reality, Throwing even more fuel at a pump thats failing as a factory peice isnt solving the problem, there droping left and right!

Glad your getting better mileage!
PS: Chip is a great guy to deal with but a little pricey if you ask me!

Will,
As far as the warranty goes, I hope they push it through, and i wasnt downing you trying, I'm just saying I doubt they will!
If you need one, Let me know , I'll see what we can make happen!
 
I've got an ex-coworker that works at the dodge dealer here in Aville and he told me that they would drop my truck, 02 90K, as soon as they saw the aftermarket air filter, if they didn't drop it from the fact that my tailpipe is aftermarket. He said that if the truck is still stock they can drop the warrenty for anything, the most common is the folks that don't take the truck and have it serviced (oil changed) by a dealer or a manufacturer recommended shop. BS yes but the way it is. Good luck.
 
sha_ba_do_bang said:
Good luck getting it warrantied, the stock OEM injection pumps suck the big one, my truck is at 120xxx and already on the 3rd pump.
Click to expand...

Dang. I've got 191,xxx on my truck with the stock IP. FASS lift pump though.
 
Indy Will said:
Why would you need 2 warranties at one time?
Click to expand...

never said you "need" it...just know how it works...

not much different than the 7/70 Powertrain warranty on my '03 Ram...it covers the powertrain up to 7/70, after the 3/36 bumper-to-bumper runs out...NOT an additional 7/70 after you reach either 3 years or 36,000 miles...


Indy Will said:
Little disapointed at the replies here fellas...figured everyone would want to see a DC get screwed over a vp44 problem...
Click to expand...

sorry to disappoint...not that we would want to "see a DC get screwed" over something, but a lot of us have been there, done that with warranties...

I had Dodge refuse to replace faulty lifters because of a supercharger on a 5.9L motor...and flag my warranty (although I sold the truck, so I never had to have the Moss-Magnuson argument with them)...on the other hand, I had Saturn replace a cracked cylinder head for $0, although I was over 60,000 miles past the end of the warranty...

Greg
 
Oh well, it was worth a shot.

The truck had a new lift pump at 90,000 miles...so I hoped they weren't going to say I needed one of those. But, they did. And that's what they turned in as the diagnoses to Chrysler (lift pump and injection pump). So they'd want me to pay for the lift pump and installation at the very least, and then they'd review for the injection pump warranty situation...

Since they wanted around a grand just for the lift pump installed I decided to let it go there. Can get the injection pump for around that...going to get a FASS on it too hopefully so didn't want to spend the money on ridiculous factory intank replacement...
 
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