Craigslist Jeep Sellers on Crack?

[RatLabGuy]

So as ball coolers, intergrated blue tooth and nav, and countless other features are added cost goes up. So a new $70,000diesel is outrageous but also costs much more to build than the same truck that is 10 years old.

This is only party true and is part of what is really frustrating.
Yes, all those little features add cost, but nothing at all compared to what they are sold at.
You're in the tech industry - you know damn well that adding a BT module to a stereo costs about $1. Adding nav is maybe $2. Adding the wiring and everything is only a few more $$. Add ball coolers may be a bit more costly, but really only probably $100 per build.
Yet the added-on cost on the feature sheet is waaay more than that. "options" that add up to thousands and thousands extra. But really they standard now, meaning it's almost impossible to get a vehicle w/o them - b/c they are very high profit items for the mfrs.
Ford etc are basically making most of their profit on fancy trucks, and selling cars at a much lower profit as a way to round out the market.

 

[VortecJeep]

Where do you find after market ball coolers?

 

[shawn]

selling cars at a loss to comply with Federal regulations

FIFY

 

[shawn]

New car prices, specifically trucks, have gone insane in the last 10 years. Partly because of increased government regulations (emissions and safety) and partly because of customer feature demands. Its no exaggeration that I am seriously considering trading my <2 year old truck in for a new one simply because the new model year with the same trim level and same basic sticker price includes air conditioned seats and sweaty balls suck. So as ball coolers, intergrated blue tooth and nav, and countless other features are added cost goes up. So a new $70,000diesel is outrageous but also costs much more to build than the same truck that is 10 years old.

But what if it's *not* the same truck?

I mean, our Dodge was top of the line in 2003. Every bell and whistle that Mr. Daimler could throw at it, he did. Today, with the sole exceptions of leather heated seats and heated mirrors, a bottom-line Tradesman is a nicer truck than our Laramie. I can get a Tradesman off the lot for about $40k. In inflation-adjusted dollars, that's - at best - even money for what the old Laramie cost. It's probably cheaper.

Irrespective of that, heated seats are great. Heated mirrors ought to be fucking standard equipment. But the delta between a Tradesman and a new Laramie with ball coolers and heated mirrors is $15k. And there's not much else you're getting for your money (chrome bumpers!)

 

[Ron]

But what if it's *not* the same truck?

I mean, our Dodge was top of the line in 2003. Every bell and whistle that Mr. Daimler could throw at it, he did. Today, with the sole exceptions of leather heated seats and heated mirrors, a bottom-line Tradesman is a nicer truck than our Laramie. I can get a Tradesman off the lot for about $40k. In inflation-adjusted dollars, that's - at best - even money for what the old Laramie cost. It's probably cheaper.

Irrespective of that, heated seats are great. Heated mirrors ought to be fucking standard equipment. But the delta between a Tradesman and a new Laramie with ball coolers and heated mirrors is $15k. And there's not much else you're getting for your money (chrome bumpers!)

That's the rub aint it.
I wish I could a la carte truck pricing. Yes I want leather seats, ball coolers and back warmers....yes I want blue tooth...and back up cameras are fucking fantastic. I havent got out to readjust on a trailer in 2 years...1 shot every single time solo. But I could care less for super plush extra thick carpeted floor mats, or premium running boards...an for Fuck's sake I dont want your 20" wheels...keep the bastards. Put packages it is.

And what sucks is that bottom of the barrel 2017 Tradesman is a quieter and plusher ride than your 2003 Laramie...has damn real close to double the stock hp/tq and is undoubtedly safer in a crash.

Why do those greedy capitalist bastards charge more for it?

 

[StretchASU]

That's the rub aint it.
I wish I could a la carte truck pricing. Yes I want leather seats, ball coolers and back warmers....yes I want blue tooth...and back up cameras are fucking fantastic. I havent got out to readjust on a trailer in 2 years...1 shot every single time solo. But I could care less for super plush extra thick carpeted floor mats, or premium running boards...an for Fuck's sake I dont want your 20" wheels...keep the bastards. Put packages it is.

And what sucks is that bottom of the barrel 2017 Tradesman is a quieter and plusher ride than your 2003 Laramie...has damn real close to double the stock hp/tq and is undoubtedly safer in a crash.

Why do those greedy capitalist bastards charge more for it?

Ford is the only one I have found that will do the rubber floor with the XLT/Tradesman trim level. Just that truck is about $8000 more than a similarly equipped Ram. I'm with ya on the a la carte thing.

17 3500 4dr srw shortbed 6.7 Aisin with Laramie seats, rubber floors, steel wheels and a backup camera.

 

[shawn]

And what sucks is that bottom of the barrel 2017 Tradesman is a quieter and plusher ride than your 2003 Laramie...has damn real close to double the stock hp/tq and is undoubtedly safer in a crash.

The new one probably has working airbags!

I'll have to race @Jody Treadway one day... I bet I've got more power at the bottom, but I run out of turbo and overheat before we get to the top. Neither one of them will hold a candle to the new Fords... but the Fords will be in the junkyard 10yrs from now.

@StretchASU fuck a SWB

 

[Ron]

The new one probably has working airbags!

I'll have to race @Jody Treadway one day... I bet I've got more power at the bottom, but I run out of turbo and overheat before we get to the top. Neither one of them will hold a candle to the new Fords... but the Fords will be in the junkyard 10yrs from now.

Note I said stock for stock....

 

[shawn]

Note I said stock for stock....

Stock for stock, they're damn-near the same. You've got to get the Aisin if you want more powers.

 

[Ron]

Wasnt the 03 the 285/500 tune?

 

[shawn]

Wasnt the 03 the 285/500 tune?

Mine was like 305/555 stock. It went up a little bit each year until around 07, then it's basically been the same since. When the Aisin came along, they started increasing the stock power values again, but only for that trans. They're still only like 375/900 or something like that. The Fords are more like 425 or 450hp.

 

[WARRIORWELDING]

Where do you find after market ball coolers?

frozen foods....when you get home warm and serve.

 

[jeepinmatt]

Mine was like 305/555 stock. It went up a little bit each year until around 07, then it's basically been the same since. When the Aisin came along, they started increasing the stock power values again, but only for that trans. They're still only like 375/900 or something like that. The Fords are more like 425 or 450hp.

Yeah, but that's Ford horsepower, so reduce it by like 15% to get the real value

 

[shawn]

Yeah, but that's Ford horsepower, so reduce it by like 15% to get the real value

Maybe... but those bitches are quick. I mean, we talk about how "with a diesel, it's like the trailer isn't there", and that's true to a point. But in that new F250, the trailer was not there. It stopped fine, it accelerated like a monster, rolled down the interstate grossing 15k like it was empty.

With ONE exception: soft ass rear springs. Almost forgot about that. Got to put air bags on a stock truck if you want to tow 7k.

But then you look under the hood, and it's.... fuck if I want to be financially responsible for all THAT. We went to the moon and back with less.

 

[Ron]

Stock for stock, they're damn-near the same. You've got to get the Aisin if you want more powers.

Mine was like 305/555 stock. They're still only like 375/900 or something like that.

I give fuck all about HP numbers in a diesel. 555->900 aint in the same league.

BTW My father in law has a 86 Kenworth with a "Four and a Quarter CAT"...a 3406B to the balance of the population that doesnt shift gears, pop pills and drive like hell for a living for the last 40 years...
Its rated 425/1250. In a tractor trailer. Had an in frame ob at 720k About to hit 1.5 now....

And @you wonder why new trucks cost $70k....

There is ZERO reason to "need" 700+ ft/lbs torque in a truck rated to tow less than 45k.

 

[shawn]

You're not listening. Stock for stock, if I go buy a new 6 speed truck today, it's still only like 350/650. The one in the driveway does better than that.

You said the new trucks make twice as much power as mine did stock, but they only make about 15% more. When I pointed that out, you moved the goalposts.

 

[jeepinmatt]

What's the bottom 2/3s of the torque curves like comparing the old vs new manuals?

 

[shawn]

Lmgtfy.com

 

[jeepinmatt]

Lmgtfy.com

yckma.com
And that was a really halfass LMGTFY. Didn't even google anything.

 

[shawn]

I put as much effort into it as you did.