CTD No Start

lomodyj

lomodyj

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 21, 2005
Location
Out in the Middle
In my attempt to recover from my melt down. I've replaced all the injectors with 215's from PDR. Followed their instrucions for install. Put the truck all back together. Did a line bleed (leave fuel line to injector fastener loose and crank till they show fuel then tighten down). Got all injectors showing fuel, tightend them all down. Restarted, ran fine, went to bleed again while running (as per PDR instructions). Loosened 1, idle dropped back, re-tightened ran fine. Loosened 2, idle dropped back, re-tightened ran fine. 3 and 4 were the same. Got to 5, loosened it and it stalled. Cracked the fitting open again and gave it a crank. Plenty of fuel squirting (at least it's the same as 1-4), tightened everything down. Now It won't start at all, just crank...not even a hiccup to make me think it might start. All wires seem to be where they should be, I've installed 2 new batteries (cranking killed a cell on one of the old ones), Fuel shut down sel. moves up when cranked...

What else should I check??????
 
CEL = Check engine light, which would probably not light for an out of fuel condition.

check all your soft lines, if there is any question that the hose could be comprimised, (raged ends, cut outter casing) use a fresh piece.

Do the whole proceedure again, when it was running, was it running smoothly ? if it sounds normal, and runs smoothly there isn't a need to go back and bleed while running. let it idle for a bit and it'll self bleed what ever air is left in it.

I have yet to have to bleed a diesel engine injector by injector while running, even when changing fuel filters, and I do this regularly (<--- statement will come back to bite me in the ass soon, this I'm am sure.)

As for it dying when you open up #5, you may end up using that injection pump yet........
 
Just fininshed removing all soft lines and connections that were put in (and since bypassed) for the grease and the secondary fuel filter (put on by PO). Just one 6 inch pc of new rubber and 2 new clamps. Pumped up the lifter pump 14 times before I got the injector pump squeel. Went another 5. Cranked for 20 seconds. NOTHING. Let it sit 3 minutes. Hit lifter pump 12 times (squeeled after 8). Cranked for 20 seconds...NOTHING again...Walked into garage, opened refrigerator, pulled out Dead Guy poped top, sat down on 5 gal bucket, quaifed beer, stared at truck. Gave up for night...Will open all connections tomorrow, re seal, try again.
 
But it was running? I don't think your stalling had anything to do with the cracking of the #5.. sounds like you're just out of fuel.

Lift pump functioning?

in case you're not doing this, putting a little pressure on the throttle while cranking can help get 'er fired.

Check engine light? for what? This bitch is 100% mechanical, save the fuel solenoid.. is that pulling up by the way? CEL's are for overly-complicated diesels.. :D
 
Went out this AM and opened and retighted all fuel related lines...From the soft line at the tank, forward to the pumps, pumps to injectors, injectors to returns, to soft return line at the tank. All rubber is new, all new clamps. Several pumps of the primer button. Mash the throttle, Crank. Got a pretty good stumble while cranking. Let it sit for 5 minutes, moved all the tools off the radiator. Cranked again. We have life! Ran for a few seconds. Crank again and it roared to life. Let it idle for a few minutes, cleaned up the tools and put them on the work table. Moved some of the tarp lines and the EZ-up (yes, it's raining). Pulled out and took it for a 6 mile "around the block". It feels down on power some, and the turbo doesn't hit as hard once it's spooled up (no kick in the pants). Got back in the driveway, popped the hood. Most everything sounds good, no clanking or banging...there is is very faint "huff, huff, huff" from the back of the motor. There is some fuel leaking from the #5 and #6 injectors. So I'm guessing I'm still getting some air (hence the 'huff' noise). Letting it cool some, will clean it up, re tighten #5 and #6 and see what happens from there.
 
Rich said:
But it was running? I don't think your stalling had anything to do with the cracking of the #5.. sounds like you're just out of fuel.
Lift pump functioning?
in case you're not doing this, putting a little pressure on the throttle while cranking can help get 'er fired.
Check engine light? for what? This bitch is 100% mechanical, save the fuel solenoid.. is that pulling up by the way? CEL's are for overly-complicated diesels.. :D
Click to expand...

The only reason I was saying this buddy is because you still have cam and crank sensor sychronization on this engine. I know it's a full mechanical but you can still get a timing code - Galen didn't do anything to jeapordize these sensor, but still wanting to throw it out there.

Galen,
Glad she is complete buddy!!
 
We are back to a no start situation...

It keeps blowing the little quad O ring/dust thing on the #2 injector...Gonna strip it all down again and re tourqe the injector hold downs...
 
RDDC said:
The only reason I was saying this buddy is because you still have cam and crank sensor sychronization on this engine. I know it's a full mechanical but you can still get a timing code - Galen didn't do anything to jeapordize these sensor, but still wanting to throw it out there.
Click to expand...

Is that true? Do the 2nd gen 12V's really "throw codes"? I thought it was fully mechanical, with no engine computer?

(I don't know, that's why I'm asking. The first gen 12V in my 79 Chevy has no computer, and no cam or crank sensors)
 
R u going to make it to URE this weekend?
 
2nd gen has a computer on the lifter pump and some other stuff...Will throw codes if there is a LP problem.

Alan, I'm still planning on getting this thing running. Whether or not I pull the Heep to URE or Drive it...still remains to be seen. Tidewater4wd has only had 2 of the 8 back out so far...So, I'd be kinda a wimp if I bagged now...:D

Pulled it all the way down to the injectors again. Found that the #2 hold down ring was loose...:wtf: I think this happened when I waited, and waited for Keith to get here and see what the system looked like...I stuck all the injectors but #1 in and had #2 loose, tourqued all the others down before he showed up...showed him #1, stuck it in place, tourqued it down and went on with the rest of the putting together...

We will see if this fixes it...If it ever stops raining.
 
And I plan on being ready to set up camp at URE about that time...This pig better start up soon...or I'll move this whole thread to the "for sale" section...and one of you could be it's new lucky owner!
 
Have you figured out how to make 2 12v into 1 24v??
 
Galen I am sure it is a sucking air thing that was the main problem I had when I tried to start up on grease. too much air in the lines.
 
RDDC said:
The only reason I was saying this buddy is because you still have cam and crank sensor sychronization on this engine. I know it's a full mechanical but you can still get a timing code
Click to expand...

I was trying to keep it light-hearted - sorry if it came across otherwise.

There is no cam sensor, and no crank sensor in the conventional sense. There's only a revolution sensor, and it's not keyed to any particular anything.. it just measures RPM, not crank or cam position in any way. The balancer has 2 notches 180° apart for the sensor to pick up, but the balancer isn't keyed, it's held on by 4 equally spaced bolts.

There can be no timing code.

thecarman said:
Is that true? Do the 2nd gen 12V's really "throw codes"? I thought it was fully mechanical, with no engine computer?
Click to expand...

Nope. No codes from the engine. The PCM controls the charging of the alternator, auto trans functions (more as the years went on), and a few other things.

lomodyj said:
2nd gen has a computer on the lifter pump and some other stuff...Will throw codes if there is a LP problem.
Click to expand...

Might wanna check that lift pump again.. No codes from the lift pump on a 12v. 24v doesn't either (otherwise no one would need a pressure gauge), but a failed lift pump will soon manifest itself as a failed injector pump, which will throw 2 distinct codes...

For the record - if you converted the fuel shut down solenoid to a cable-actuated design, you only need 2 wires to start and run the engine - 1 small one for the starter solenoid, and a big one for the starter motor.

There is nothing else that is required for the Cummins to run. The Dodge they stuck it in wants a tach signal from the sensor up front, and won't charge the batteries, no tach, no cruise, no A/C (i think) if you're not getting a signal from that sucker.
 
jph0913 said:
How are those functions related?
Click to expand...

hahahha I was thinking the same thing.. Maybe that is why all my crasp does not work :)
 
Still a problem...Looking for a magic bullet at this point. Spent most of today futzing with it...Still no start.

Fuel shut off selenoid pulls up at every attempt.
I've got good squirts from the fuel lines at the injectors.
5-6 pumps of the lifter pump primer and I'll get the bypass squeel.
All rocker arms look good and move as they should.
All valves appear to move as they should.
Pump seems to be in time (by watching #1 valves and fuel squirt at injector).
I've tried blocking off the return line and cranking, no change.
I've double clamped both rubber (new hose) lines.
I've put on a new fuel filter (and primed it)
I get pressure at the fuel filter water drain.
I get pressure when I crack the return line (at the injector)
I've checked, double checked the hard fuel lines, taken them off, put them back on, checked and double checked them again...

I'm running out of ideas...and patience

Anybody have any more ideas?
 
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