Don't take your truck to these guys.

russ0943

russ0943

yehaw x10
Joined
Mar 28, 2007
Location
Valdese, NC
http://www.performanceoiltechnology.com/brakingsystems.htm

Not sure how I ran across this website but it pretty much tells me this guy doesn't know what he's talking about and thinks he does.... or maybe I have more to learn.

This is what tipped it off for me:
"We are also longstanding Professional Grade members of the Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE). This prestigious position is ONLY granted to degreed engineers with documented work experience in the automotive engineering industry."

---Um, I've been a degreed Mech Engr. for about 1.5yrs now and have been in SAE for over 7 years so I know this isn't true. Not to mention all you have to do is fill out a paper and send money, then you are in.

Then this:
The problem with this diagnosis and repair procedure is that first of all is that brake rotors do not warp.

---Ok, sure. I know thats not true. Brake rotors can definately warp from the heating cycle they experience.

Next:
A service technician cannot effectively determine where the high and low spots are in order to match mount the components.

---Ever heard of a dial indicator?

Next: They try to sell the product:
...applications in cars and light, medium and heavy trucks which can filter particles down to less than one micron (a standard full flow oil filter can only filter to 20-25 microns, and at a reduced efficiency) making oil changes virtually unnecessary and virtually eliminating engine wear.

---So a good filter will make your oil last forever. Right... I'm no chemical engineer but I know that the lubrication and viscous properties of oil deteriorate over time.


Point is, guys like this really piss me off. Rant over.:flipoff2:
 
I got tired of reading all of the info long ago, but it really is brake pad material transfer to the rotor that causes "warpage", rather than actual warpage...

Otherwise, who gives a shit?
 
braxton357 said:
I got tired of reading all of the info long ago, but it really is brake pad material transfer to the rotor that causes "warpage", rather than actual warpage...
Click to expand...

Please explain...
 
Like the *last* time I took my F250 to the GoodYear place here... got new tires on, when I picked it up I asked the tech how much torque he put on the lugs (and did he torque at all). "Umm, I used the blue (or whatever) torque stick, I think it's 90 lbs".

I informed him that F*rd calls for 165lbs and asked him to retorque... "we can't go that high" "Well, use a torque wrench then" "We don't have one but I can put them on real tight with the impact wrench."

So I did it myself in their parking lot with my own torque wrench from the back of my truck. Grrrrr. Haven't been back.

Anyway, point is F*rd sent out a service notice for my truck several years back, upping the lug nut torque due to warping rotors. (Their best solution to fix their shit.)
 
so if the brake pad build up theory were true.. you'd really never have to replace your rotors, just keep shaving off the build up... ummm ya....
 
Well Ive got a set of rotors here that came off the K5, they have .27" difference between thickest and thinnest points. And the thin ones are ready to be punctured with a pick.

I *think* what the dumbass, who owns that website is trying inappropriately to reference is that rotors don't really "warp" all that often. (though they can due to over torqure and hot spotting/water submersion)

The general condition referred to as "warping" is an uneven wear caused by caliper pulsation and impact/drag friction differences.

So if it was true warpage there would be equal thickness all the way around the rotor, but the rotor would have a run-out or wobbly to its spin axis. Where generally the pulsation feeling is caused by low spots in the rotor.

I have no idea WTF he is talking about with pad build up.

And BTW I am a SAE member, simply beause they sent it to me in a form mail and it looks good on a business card...
 
I gotta agree that's BS on the pad build up thing. If that were true, rotors would get thicker not thinner.
 
SkyHiK5 said:
So if it was true warpage there would be equal thickness all the way around the rotor, but the rotor would have a run-out or wobbly to its spin axis. Where generally the pulsation feeling is caused by low spots in the rotor.
Click to expand...

My thoughts exactly.
I have a well-used and overheated Saturn rotor sitting on the floor of my shop.
Floor is level. laying "flat", the rotor wil lrock back and forth if you push on one side of it.
Now, I have a hard time beliving that is not a warped rotor.
 
yager said:
so if the brake pad build up theory were true.. you'd really never have to replace your rotors, just keep shaving off the build up... ummm ya....
Click to expand...

They do. It's called having them resurfaced.:flipoff2:

Anyway, this was a huge topic a long time ago on the cornercarvers board, that's how I know of it.

And fwiw, here's a good article by carrol smith (go ahead and call him a dumbass :flipoff2:) on the subject.
http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/wp_warped_brakedisk.shtml#

And if you're a CC member you can read about it there as well.

All this aside, it doesn't really matter--you're going to be replacing your rotors anyway.
 
I disagree with the build up on rotors. I used to rebuild insurance totals cars for a living. Almost every car we got needed the rotors turn to eliminate pulsing. I would figure that was from slamming on the brakes hard right before the crash.
 
My $0.02:rolleyes:

Ridgerunner said:
... I would figure that was from slamming on the brakes hard right before the crash.
Click to expand...

This may be, in fact, a good illustration.

I'm no 4 year "degreed" train driver, but from 29 years in racing and 35 years of driving (usually too fast!), rotor do warp.

Fixed or rigid mount calipers, such as our modern racing calipers, don't seem to warp em like a floating caliper. I'm guessing it is because the rigid mount calipers "clamp" the rotor while floating calipers "pull" the rotor to one side. When stopped while they are hot and pulled like this, they begin to cool and hold their "new" shape. (Even hard stopping at traffic lights will do this) Hot iron is very malleable at a fairly low temp. And I have "trued" warped rotors on floating caliper vehicles by running a fair speed and dragging the brakes pretty hard and then easing back off the pedal very gradually. This works...try it! Especially effective on vehicles, with what I consider under size brakes, which coincidently also warp the easiest! LOL!

Also, I think the reason rotors are still iron is because iron is good at retaining it's preheat shape, if not acted upon externally. So while our racing calipers will glow almost yellow on the bull ring tracks, the square clamping forces of our calipers don't "pull" the hot rotor to one side, thus keeping the rotor true.

And I don't believe water warps em, because we have sprayed water mist on our rotors to cool them on road courses (oops...nobody is supposed to know that!), and it doesn't warp em.

and btw...Pad build up? Sheesh!:shaking: Who writes this stuff!?
 
"Next: They try to sell the product:
...applications in cars and light, medium and heavy trucks which can filter particles down to less than one micron (a standard full flow oil filter can only filter to 20-25 microns, and at a reduced efficiency) making oil changes virtually unnecessary and virtually eliminating engine wear"


WHAT! ONE MICRON...not on your life. TEN MAYBE.

Yes, synthetic oils can run much longer than dyno oils but they will contaminate from internal friction wear and they will burn off at really high temperatures creating the need to replace the lost oil. We never changed the oil in our military jet engines unless lab analysis indicated elevated levels of metal contamination. Always had to add some at preflight from high temp burnoff.

You guys are right, the brake rotor crap and other BS in the article tells me the writer is a dumb ass.
 
Just read that article.
Quote...
The ONLY Degreed Mechanical and Truck/Automotive Engineers on the net with 22 years experience specializing in engine, powertrain/chassis engineering, performance and synthetic motor oil lubrication and filtration.
unquote.

That cat is an IDIOT! :shaking:

Someone supposing to have knowledge of both brakes and synthetics couldn't possibly write an article full of so much wrong information and disinformation on BOTH subjects, as I have just read there.

AMSoil should be pissed! They have a great product. This guy has greatly lowered my confidence in them and probably most other AMSoil marketing.

Bet if this guy was sellin brake products, the story would have been written a lot differently!! LOL!

If he, in fact, IS a degreed individual etc, it surely explains why our beloved NASCAR stockcar racing is getting more screwed up by engineers each day.
 
Having a degree gives you no knowledge of the real world. I promise, as I just finished mine. I know what I know because I got my hands dirty and I have a bit of natural mechanical inclination and curiosity.
 
That guy is a liar, and thief. The most common reason I think rotors warp is little or no rear brakes, due to a stupid mechanic, or not freeing up and greasing the adjuster. A car should squat not dive when breaks are applied.
 
jeepinmatt said:
Having a degree gives you no knowledge of the real world. I promise, as I just finished mine. I know what I know because I got my hands dirty and I have a bit of natural mechanical inclination and curiosity.
Click to expand...
I couldn't agree with you more. Then why is it that they always put some guy with a degree in charge of people who do what the guy knows nothing about?
 
Through my vast years of experinance brake rotor warpage is from the one applying the brakes. I put slotted rotors on my jeep less heat less warpage. On my Tahoe I have to turn the rotors every brake change I feel because I pay less attention and have to hit the brakes hard at the last min before slamming the car in front of me. My F350 still on the stock rotors with 99000 miles. It drive like shit so I pay attention in hense don't wait till the last min to hit brakes. Heat sucks:driver:
 
jeepinmatt said:
Having a degree gives you no knowledge of the real world. I promise, as I just finished mine. I know what I know because I got my hands dirty and I have a bit of natural mechanical inclination and curiosity.
Click to expand...

Agree 100%. Same here.
 
Also as a note...I wouldnt recommend turning rotors either! I never do it. New ones are usually pretty cheap nowdays.

If a rotor this thick (.....) warps, whats gonna happen to a rotor this thick (...)?? And this will create uneven rotor thickness.:rolleyes:

And, BTW...factory rotors are usually the absolute worst rotors you will ever own. After market rotors are usually better! Even the cheap ones.
 
ol'Jeeps said:
Also as a note...I wouldnt recommend turning rotors either! I never do it. New ones are usually pretty cheap nowdays.

If a rotor this thick (.....) warps, whats gonna happen to a rotor this thick (...)?? And this will create uneven rotor thickness.:rolleyes:

And, BTW...factory rotors are usually the absolute worst rotors you will ever own. After market rotors are usually better! Even the cheap ones.
Click to expand...

Well, I actually just did a brake job on my F250 yesterday because of pulsing brakes...imagine that. Lateral runout on front left rotor was out of spec. I pulled them, had them machined for $10, put a set of pads on for $22...so $32 for a brake job ain't that bad. Plus it works perfect now. I looked for brake pad material buildup but it just wasn't there.

New rotors were about $100. So its easy to choose between $100 for new rotors or $10 to have them turned. Now when they reach the minimal thickness spec I will replace them but these had probably never been turned before.
 
Towing heavy loads down 321 from Boone. I think that says enough. Plus from the looks of it, it has been awhile since this thing has had a brake job.

Also, when the problem arose I retorqued the lug nuts and it didn't seem like they were all the same tightness when I removed them. Retorqued, two stages, 90ftlbs, 160ftlbs to spec.

While we're on the topic of brakes: Do carbon metallic pads generate more dust than semi-metallic? What exactly are the benefits of carbon metallic pads?
 
The main benefit is marketing. I think the guise is that you have the grab of semi-metallic with the dust level of ceramic.
 
Back
Top