Focused towards East Coast in general....

MetalCraftSolved

MetalCraftSolved

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 20, 2010
Location
NC
I have been seriously debating whether I should invest in most of the parts I need to tune or simply rebuild and maintenance shocks for customers who aren't happy with the way their suspension feels trail riding or they are dying to go faster in off road terrain....

I have made working in various parts of the off road racing industry my life, soaking up and learning anything I can.... Not to mention going to off road racing school.... The off road racing scene is growing on the east coast and quite frankly, you guys need help.... By all means I'm not going to give my knowledge and service away for free if I'm going to invest my time and money. I will have to figure quotes later after materials are bought, but I need input on whether or not its worth it for me to try to help you guys?

Its a big step for me because its something I enjoy very much, and I only do it with so few cars....

If and when I decide to do this it will take me 3 or 4 months to get set up mobile and self sufficient....

I'm sure I could nail a trail rig on the first try.... Race cars can never get fast enough and need attention their whole lives....

Whats the deal, I need to make a decision?
 

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I say do it, if it's something you're interested in. You already know I'd be down with you giving my shocks a tune.
 
READ THIS!!!!

Bump....


I'm going to bump this thread for a month and if I don't think this move is half way worth it, then its not going to happen. Which will make this service very, very expensive for the people who want it....

Everyone on this website has a rig, surely these guys aren't the only people that want to make their suspension better....

The few guys that I have talked to, pretty much have a free tuning session with the parts that they supply, just to get this rolling. I can't buy a couple grand worth of start up inventory for just a few guys. Plus I have to outfit a truck....

I won't be able to create a quote until later but I am thinking the numbers will be between $100 and $200 per day depending on how many rigs show up for one day. And a session takes ALLLL day so bring a lunch and be ready to drive your rig all day in your particular choice of terriain, Rocks, Fast Stuff, Rough Stuff, Whatever....

Tell your friends, speak up right here and don't be shy because this thread will not last much more than a month or two if nothing comes of this....
 

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Well for guys like me with a "real" truck still (not buggy type) I have wanted to get a good set of air/nitrogen shocks on my truck cause I love to try and jump stuff too much sometimes but then I would prob need to link my truck too and such. Yeah ofcourse theres more of a need for this out west but there are plenty of guys here on this forum with buggies and probably dont have the knowledge your talking about having as far as tuning them just right for what they need. I think its a good idea.
 
would love some help from somebody that has some knowledge. like the way my buggy crawls, but the medium to fast stuff is alittle hard on the kidneys. everytime i call swayaway looking for help, i usually am aggravated because they dont seem to care to help me. i always threaten to change brands to an other shock company that will be more helpful. i think you could do well for yourself on the east coast.
 
Yeah man I think its a good idea, you got a dream so go for it, and I think that theres people out there interested in this kind of service but don't know it yet because there isn't anyone to do it. I would like your advice on my Samurai so I think its a good thing your trying to do, and maybe will get us on the east coast closer to competing on the same level with the people out west.
 
Bigben75ford said:
Well for guys like me with a "real" truck still (not buggy type)
Click to expand...


I'll use this quote for explanation purposes in a small part of the tuning scenario....

To a certain extent, this does not mean that his truck cannot out perform certain "buggies" in certain areas because they might not be tuned to their potential....


Example: Bigben75ford has a "truck"


What needs to happen in this tuning situation is we have to go out onto the trail and figure out exactly what is hindering his truck the most to begin with....

If he is having problems when hitting a ledge and the truck seems like it is going to roll over backwards, this can be addressed....

If he pulls up on a ledge and just can't get over it? Maybe he isn't getting enough traction to the rear tires, Maybe even the front tires? This can be addressed....

To perform correctly, maybe at static ride height its sitting too high, Maybe too low? This can be addressed....

Maybe the rear end bounces and loses traction too easy when climbing, or maybe the front end very aggravatingly bounces a few inches and acts like a jackhammer? This an be addressed.....

These are just a few examples of how I can make a rig handle better....



Understand.... You can drive as hard as you want to but, a driver can adapt.... A vehicle for that matter can only physically climb something if it is able. A vehicle can only physically go so fast unless you make it faster....


The biggest problem when tuning an off-road vehicle is that the driver is soooo accustomed to the handing that they have been used to for years and therefor he or she is uncomfortable when it acts different (mainly in go fast situations).





What kind of potential does your suspension have?
 
wow man way to sum that up,good info and examples! Well I am planning on getting some air shocks sometime but still would it make that big of a difference when running leaf springs compared to a link suspension?
 
I say go for it, but I do I think it will take some time to grow this market out a little more. A few comments:

I think establishing a price/fee structure that fits different types of folks/wheelers.
1 group might already be involved with racing/tuning etc. know what they want and just need the work done correctly. Set unit prices or similar. Another group might value your input and want tuning advise.

For me, I would be more inclined to actually pay for tuning if it was results based vs $ per tuning session. Even if the price was 2-3x more up front, if nail it 1st try good for you. Possibly incorporate that into a type of overall package/offering.

I think your tuning day scenario would be good but only if you offered a way to schedule appointments for folks. I could easily see a star racer type getting preferential treatment at a test/tune. While a small guy gets brushed off.

I think also offering a coil over (spring) trade in/up program would be a huge plus. When I did the $ math of picking a suspension I considered Std. COs/Balisting AIRs w/ Coil, and ORIs, For me the likelihood I needing to buy some different coils to get the suspension right was very high. I had to factor that in with the pros/cons of each. Adding a coil swap program along with ability to get them tuned locally would also be factored in.

Make sure your getting some PR with the track and dirt guys. Maybe there isn't room in that market dono but can't hurt to check. Possibly grow out the 'street' market with tuning 'normal' sized shocks for street use. I think people overlook this aspect and just buy brand X for their car/truck when I tuned shock might be better.

Do you have any experience with re-valving the ORIs ?

Bottom line I think there is a need for this service and the group of people who might use it is definitely growing, BUT 4x4 folks in general are the cheapest bunch of people I've ever been associated with. It's really what makes the hobby/sport so popular as well as interesting, you just need to figure a way to service various groups properly.
 
100-200 a day is a smokin deal. I've had talks with Fox several times on the phone and at races and if you want to have your junk tuned its probably double what you are/would be charging. Guys running bypass setups are paying thousands upon thousands to have shocks tuned. Though those are full race applications the labor and job is roughly still the same.
We have a similar setup for welding and fab out of our trailer and its a huge convenience for us and others. I say go for it.
 
personally i think if you were to do this things would be slow at 1st but once things started picking up youd be kicking yourself in the butt wishing you had done this sooner!
 
paradisePWoffrd said:
are you talking about just doing shock/strut/coilover tuning, or tuning the whole suspension?
Click to expand...

Sorry I'm not quite sure I understand what you mean by tuning the whole suspension? Are you asking about the fabrication part of it? Maybe re-vamping your link setup or maybe upgrading travel?



CarolinaTruggies said:
100-200 a day is a smokin deal. I've had talks with Fox several times on the phone and at races and if you want to have your junk tuned its probably double what you are/would be charging. Guys running bypass setups are paying thousands upon thousands to have shocks tuned. Though those are full race applications the labor and job is roughly still the same.
We have a similar setup for welding and fab out of our trailer and its a huge convenience for us and others. I say go for it.
Click to expand...

Yeah the guy's paying that much coin for a certain tuner are the guys that understand how critical shock tuning is for each individual race.... You can bet money that all of the top off road teams and most of the weekend warrior guys are testing and tuning in the area they are racing the week before the green flag....
 
yager said:
I think establishing a price/fee structure that fits different types of folks/wheelers.
1 group might already be involved with racing/tuning etc. know what they want and just need the work done correctly. Set unit prices or similar. Another group might value your input and want tuning advise.
Click to expand...
Yes definably, if someone were to bring a set of shocks to me at my shop or mail them it would be a different type of payment structure.... That would go along the lines of making a quote for rebuilding and revalving "in house"....
I don't know how I would go about just giving people advise?:confused:
yager said:
For me, I would be more inclined to actually pay for tuning if it was results based vs $ per tuning session. Even if the price was 2-3x more up front, if nail it 1st try good for you. Possibly incorporate that into a type of overall package/offering.
Click to expand...
I see where your coming from with the results based payment method but what do I do when I get the guy that is never happy? In a perfect world I would jump all over it, but I see what vendors deal with on a daily basis and I don't think that would be a good idea....
yager said:
I think your tuning day scenario would be good but only if you offered a way to schedule appointments for folks. I could easily see a star racer type getting preferential treatment at a test/tune. While a small guy gets brushed off.
I think also offering a coil over (spring) trade in/up program would be a huge plus. When I did the $ math of picking a suspension I considered Std. COs/Balisting AIRs w/ Coil, and ORIs, For me the likelihood I needing to buy some different coils to get the suspension right was very high. I had to factor that in with the pros/cons of each. Adding a coil swap program along with ability to get them tuned locally would also be factored in.
Click to expand...
Yeah I have been that small guy getting the brush before, not fun....
Suspension parts exchange is a great idea and I love it but, at this point right now I have take my baby steps so I don't get burned.... Definably in the future plan book though....
yager said:
Make sure your getting some PR with the track and dirt guys. Maybe there isn't room in that market dono but can't hurt to check. Possibly grow out the 'street' market with tuning 'normal' sized shocks for street use. I think people overlook this aspect and just buy brand X for their car/truck when I tuned shock might be better.
Click to expand...
The guys that do dirt track stuff are in a completely different ball game when you get down to the nitty gritty.... It would take me years to compete with an experienced dirt track suspension tuner.... They are specialized in that field and probably wouldn't understand our world. UNLESS they have been doing both for many years IMO
yager said:
Do you have any experience with re-valving the ORIs ?
Click to expand...
ORI's don't have valve stacks so you cannot re-valve them.... They are internally adjusted using a CRITICAL amout of fluid and nitrogen pressure. The internal compression bypass gate ways cannot be changed on the ST's and feeler gauges are required to tune the piston shaft along side fluid and nitrogen perssures, which are all very small and critical increments. The adjustable internal bumpstop is pretty badass....
I've never rebuilt one but they are very complex because of the tons of little parts the the piston shaft. And I can't wait to get my hands on a set to rebuild someday.... It looks like a challenge....
The packaging feature with these ORI struts are phenomenal, with their 3 stage compression dampening.... I only recommend them for rock crawlers though.... I am not a fan of these in a desert situation.... At All....
 
DavidG4x4 said:
You can bet money that all of the top off road teams and most of the weekend warrior guys are testing and tuning in the area they are racing the week before the green flag....
Click to expand...
Speaking of...




I tried calling you earlier about this exact situation, but I'll talk to you this weekend.
 
DavidG4x4 said:
Sorry I'm not quite sure I understand what you mean by tuning the whole suspension? Are you asking about the fabrication part of it? Maybe re-vamping your link setup or maybe upgrading travel
Click to expand...

Im just curious. While shock tuning does tons, there are many characteristics that are caused by improper suspension design. So tuning shocks/coilovers could be just polishing a turd because of the link setup. While that's not much concern potentially for you, it could lead to those unhappy customers.

I bet that most rock crawlers aren't too worried about tuning but for racers or street driven rigs it could go a long way.
 
I have no doubt that someone might not be happy with the potential of the suspension that they are truly proud of building or designing, or whatever but shock tuning can be essential for improper suspension designs to counteract the performance of what their design is lacking....
 
DavidG4x4 said:
I have no doubt that someone might not be happy with the potential of the suspension that they are truly proud of building or designing, or whatever but shock tuning can be essential for improper suspension designs to counteract the performance of what their design is lacking....
Click to expand...


Definitely not going to dispute the importance of proper shock tuning!

BUT- what about improper suspension design, would you fix/fabricate things or just say "nope, there's no helping you!" if someone's suspension design is terrible?
 
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