Gov't Bail out

drkelly

drkelly

Dipstick who put two vehicles on jack stands
Joined
Mar 21, 2005
Location
Oak Ridge/Stokesdale, NC
http://money.cnn.com/2008/09/24/news/economy/bernanke_testimony/index.htm?postversion=2008092410

I liked this part best:
"I think President Bush did properly diagnose it when he said the problem was that Wall Street got drunk and has a hangover. The problem is the people who are asked to clean up all the broken furniture, they didn't get invited to the party," said Rep. Lloyd Doggett, D-Texas. "That's why so many of the people that are contacting me are not just against this bailout, they're very angry they're even being asked."
 
Bernanke said that when the government starts buying the mortgage-backed securities from the banks, it will provide a market that doesn't exist now, and allow the prices to rise from the current depressed levels to ones more justified by the fundamentals of the loans, most of which are not in default.
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In other words, we're going to print money and make it go away.

$2300 per US Citizen to help the greedy bastards. $7000 per tax paying US Citizen.

58 MILLION $1000/mo mortgages for a YEAR!
 
Screw' em. let them fail.

The nation (the people in it) is in too much debt.

I say no new loans for a period of years, i want to say 30 but that seems extreme. Let americans dig their way outta debt.

Also bank loan reform needs to happen. Intrest SUCKS. I would like to see a 10 percent loan cost me ten percent of the value of the loan, not 1 and half times what i borrowed!

It should be hard to get a loan. If you cant fit the requirements, get an apt or go live with momma.
 
BigRedB2 said:
Screw' em. let them fail.
The nation (the people in it) is in too much debt.
I say no new loans for a period of years, i want to say 30 but that seems extreme. Let americans dig their way outta debt.
Also bank loan reform needs to happen. Intrest SUCKS. I would like to see a 10 percent loan cost me ten percent of the value of the loan, not 1 and half times what i borrowed!
It should be hard to get a loan. If you cant fit the requirements, get an apt or go live with momma.
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This is gott be some of the stupidest shite i've heard in awhile. :confused:

First if all, people keep talking about this as "their" problem, let "them" fail, yada yada. Yes, nnot a problem created by myself, but guess what it is MY problem now. Sucks donkey balls, but it's how it is.
What do oyu think these guys are trading on Wall street? It's not THEIR money. It's MY money, YOUR money - OUR money.
This time last week, I was just about to move a very large chunk of $$ 9proceeds from selling the house) to aMoney Market with WaMu. Him, not doing that now. Why/ Well if they go under, guess what - i'm out a huge chunk of $$... takin' it up the ol' bung-hole.

BigRedB2 said:
Screw' em. let them fail.
The nation (the people in it) is in too much debt.
I say no new loans for a period of years, i want to say 30 but that seems extreme.
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Huh? So - noody can MOVE from where they live right now? What happens if you get a new job somewhere else? Or outgrow your home? Yeah, that'll be good for the economy. So much for starting a new business, if you can't get decent employees to come there (e.g. people who are responsible enough to already own a home, they aren't gonna leave it!). Or the building market?
Fact is, loans are the basis of the economy. Businesses need them, people need them. it's the only way to every have large purchases or big startups of any kind.

BigRedB2 said:
. Intrest SUCKS. I would like to see a 10 percent loan cost me ten percent of the value of the loan, not 1 and half times what i borrowed!
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WTF? did you pass 5th grade math? The above effects is just what happens when interest is compounded. How in the world do you expect to get around that?
Ok, i'll give you a home loan that will only cost you exactly 6.25% as stated. i give you the money now, you PAY IT ALL BACK IN FULL IN 1 YEAR. No problems there, right?
if you take the interest out of the equation, you take out the inceptive to give out loans. If banks don't give out loans, they aren't making any money. So What, you say? Welll, if they aren't making money, tey aren't PAYING money either - how do you feel about havin ga savings account? Retirment fund?

BigRedB2 said:
It should be hard to get a loan. If you cant fit the requirements, get an apt or go live with momma.
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Yes, it should. But, define "hard". We already had the discussion about the impossibility of requiring huge % down payments.

i'm no fan of this "bailout" notion either. But honestly I don't have any better suggestions. In teh end, the truth really is that it isn't just bailing out "then" - it keeps us all out of the crapper.

The ONe good thing about one of the current proposals is that there's a requirement that salaries (incl CEOs) of any company taking fed $$ are capped in salary to "no more than the highest paid fed employye", which is is the Pres at "only $400k". A start, at least. Shit, i say say just make them "fed employees" so they'll all be stuck at the same cold hard no-argument flat stated GS pay scale as all gov't employees, that'd really cap 'em fast.
 
RatLabGuy said:
i say say just make them "fed employees" so they'll all be stuck at the same cold hard no-argument flat stated GS pay scale as all gov't employees, that'd really cap 'em fast.
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the government cannot compete against american companies. Making them federal employees would push it even further past the line of federalizing these companies.

Do you realize that we are in this situation because Americans think its okay to get loan after loan and loan, and charge things to credit card after credit card after credit card?

Remember when it was commonplace for someone to live with their parents til they were 25+?

I know a 30 year shut down on loans is rediculous but we need to get this nation out of debt. I know you are touched by the need to relocate. Fine, rent. A rule like that also means that i would not be able to sell and move to a more desireable (for me anyway) house. Tough shit. Something has to be done about americans in debt. If it takes 30 years to erase every americans debt then i think thats what needs to happen. Forget this $700 billion bailout. Spend that money on eliminating student loans and home loans and auto loans.

I'm not changing my mind about my views on intrest. $122,000 in intrest on a $94,000 loan? if i read my ammortization info from my loan correctly, not only does the bank get back the $94k i borrowed, but they get an additional $122k. 5th grade math tells me thats not right. If a bank is going to charge me 6.5% intrest, they they oughta get $6110.00 when its all said and done. Its rediculous that you think compounded intrest is okay and i cant believe the fleece has been pulled over americans eyes for so long.

I know, i dont have the answers for this one either. All i know is that the american economy should not be in a place to be affected by the failing of a 2 or three companies.

If thats the case the Investment market has gotten out of hand. Like i stated earlier, the market is to support growing companies not the average american. The fact that an average american can put hundreds of thousands of dollars into businesses they know nothing about is rediculous. It's gambling and should be illegal.

I know that's a radical view to have. I see the stock market as the rise of corperate america and the fall of the mom and pop company. The rise of corp america was the death of customer service. The death of customer service was the death of quality control. Now we have furniture that last 3 years, cars that wont last long enough to be a classic, everything being made of plastic and being available at walmart.

Music, Cars, and Food started to suck after 1979. too bad i was born in 1981.
 
RatLabGuy said:
Yes, it should. But, define "hard". We already had the discussion about the impossibility of requiring huge % down payments.
.
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guess i missed that convo.

Hard: sticking to the rules and no fudging of income. No loans to questionable credit scores.


i had ZERO credit when i got my home loan. Looking back at it, it was stupid to give me a loan at that time with the income i had then and the lack of credit. Luckily i am not in need of a bailout but that only came through my hard work and perseverance. If i screw around and can't pay my mortgage i wouldnt come to you guys and ask you all to chip in too catch me up, and i dont appreciate that the govt is forcing me to chip in on some one elses screw up.

The economy and political system both need a reset. i just dont have any suggestions that arent drastically radical.
 
BigRedB2 said:
the government cannot compete against american companies. Making them federal employees would push it even further past the line of federalizing these companies.
Do you realize that we are in this situation because Americans think its okay to get loan after loan and loan, and charge things to credit card after credit card after credit card?
Remember when it was commonplace for someone to live with their parents til they were 25+?
I know a 30 year shut down on loans is rediculous but we need to get this nation out of debt. I know you are touched by the need to relocate. Fine, rent. A rule like that also means that i would not be able to sell and move to a more desireable (for me anyway) house. Tough shit. Something has to be done about americans in debt. If it takes 30 years to erase every americans debt then i think thats what needs to happen. Forget this $700 billion bailout. Spend that money on eliminating student loans and home loans and auto loans.
I'm not changing my mind about my views on intrest. $122,000 in intrest on a $94,000 loan? if i read my ammortization info from my loan correctly, not only does the bank get back the $94k i borrowed, but they get an additional $122k. 5th grade math tells me thats not right. If a bank is going to charge me 6.5% intrest, they they oughta get $6110.00 when its all said and done. Its rediculous that you think compounded intrest is okay and i cant believe the fleece has been pulled over americans eyes for so long.
I know, i dont have the answers for this one either. All i know is that the american economy should not be in a place to be affected by the failing of a 2 or three companies.
If thats the case the Investment market has gotten out of hand. Like i stated earlier, the market is to support growing companies not the average american. The fact that an average american can put hundreds of thousands of dollars into businesses they know nothing about is rediculous. It's gambling and should be illegal.
I know that's a radical view to have. I see the stock market as the rise of corperate america and the fall of the mom and pop company. The rise of corp america was the death of customer service. The death of customer service was the death of quality control. Now we have furniture that last 3 years, cars that wont last long enough to be a classic, everything being made of plastic and being available at walmart.
Music, Cars, and Food started to suck after 1979. too bad i was born in 1981.
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You need to stop.
You are making yourself sound really unintelligent.
That 6.75% is APY (ANNUAL PERCENT PER YEAR) In other words, the bank would only make your 6110 if you payed it back in 1 year. if you keep it 30 years they geet their 6,110 each of those 30 years.

You do realize that inflation is ~3% per year right?

Let m explain, my grandfather built his house in 1952. It cost him 9,250 for just over 2500 sqft all brick and built to standards that no one today would spend the money on. He recently had that same home appraised today at 245,000. Now he had no way of building that house in 52 so he borrowed the money. If he paid your interest over 30 years the bank would have made $624 over the course of 30 years. The bank would never loan thee money, they would have simply built the house and let it escalate.
2 years ago $1 bought you a 20ozz soda of your choice.
Today it take $1.20.
The dollar is not a static unit of measure each year it loses value (as does all currency) to think you would geet interest for 1 year but allow someone to repay the debt over 30 is stupid.

Seriously man, compound interest is the rule in all countries and has been for CENTURIES. if you dont get that, it is a you problem not a bank problem....
 
I'm glad you brought up the value of a bottle of soda. that does not reflect an inflation growth of 3%. whats driving the rapid inflation? cost of oil. why is the cost of oil high? the market. speculators have driven the cost of oil stupidly high. Now because of high price of goods related to oil (almost everything) all those questionable loans made are failing.

Ive paid $42000 in mortgage payments and $38K of that has been in intrest. Thats 41%. Thats 8.2% a year. more than almost 3 times your stated inflation rate. I think the bank has themselves covered. if i paid off the loan today, the bank has made a profit of $38k even with 3% a year, thats a hell of a margin.

I realize that a loan is ammortized. and over time the amount paid to principle and intrest flip flop. I have paid the bank almost half what they loaned me.

By the way, that $9250 loan your grandfather took to build the home, would be worth $73K today after inflation. im a little curious as to how your grandfathers ammortization would match up to that number.
 
BigRedB2 said:
Tough shit. Something has to be done about americans in debt. If it takes 30 years to erase every americans debt then i think thats what needs to happen. Forget this $700 billion bailout. Spend that money on eliminating student loans and home loans and auto loans.
I'm not changing my mind about my views on intrest. $122,000 in intrest on a $94,000 loan? if i read my ammortization info from my loan correctly, not only does the bank get back the $94k i borrowed, but they get an additional $122k. 5th grade math tells me thats not right. If a bank is going to charge me 6.5% intrest, they they oughta get $6110.00 when its all said and done. Its rediculous that you think compounded intrest is okay and i cant believe the fleece has been pulled over americans eyes for so long.
Click to expand...

OK something needs to be done.....
Do it, To start stop doing what you are doing and pay your bills and pay them up. Stop paying all the money to the bank and stop paying a high APR and don't pay so much interest.
Its like this, to start don't get a house tell you are ready, save up 15 to 20 percent or more to put down on it. Never Set up a loan and pay the full term always pay it off early and pay the lone up. If you must get a 30 loan on a house go back in the next 5 years and redo the loan to a 15 year if you can't handle the loan on a 15 year loan you got to much of a house. Pay up the loan early so a 15 turns into a 14 or 13.5 year.

Do the same on cars, If you need to get a loan on a car or truck and its you and your wife, only have one car payment at a time never two yours and hers. Always have a car account that you put 50-100 each month for a new car so you have at least 50% of the cost of a new on and when you go get the loan it is for 3 to 4 years max and you work to pay it off early. Never let them talk you into a 5 or 6 year loan if you need that you are spending to much on a car and need to look something else.

The reason that people pay so much in interest is that they use loans way to much.
Do you ever hear anyone bitch so much about interest and how much it is and how high it is if they PAY CASH.....:rolleyes:

Only the people that use it the most and are maxed out on it and can not live with out it.
 
1998, I had been out of College a couple years, had been renting with room mates, the housing market was really exploding, People were flipping houses, making money, taking loans for new houses.. we all know the story.

I decide that I'm done with room mates, I want to be on my own so I found a condo I liked down in Charlotte. Small place in Selwyn Area. the rest of the condos had been updated and were selling for $95-110K. The one I found was outdated inside and selling for $74K. I was already pre-approved for a loan of $125K. anyone care to guess how much money I was bringing home at that time? $22K HOW THE HELL was I approved for $125K on $22K salary? No I didn't have any debt, my car payment was invisible to the bank since the loan for my XJ was then still thru my parents. BUT a loan that was over 5 times what I made? I didn't know near as much about finances as I do now, but I knew there was no way I was going to be able to keep that going with or without a car payment.

Then again 2 years ago I went looking for the house I'm in now. Go to get pre-approved and once again they still wanted to throw a bigger chunk of money at me than We (wife an I with two salaries) could pay. NO THANKS! and Glad we didn't max out the amount offered since the wife got Pregnant and had a bad 9 months that she couldn't work. We'd have been FUCT!! Glad We were sensible enough to know better.
 
Brent, i was in the same boat. I know exactly what you mean. it's crazy how easy it was to get a loan. i think that needs to be changed.

Gadget, im with you 100% on everything youve said.

the only problem with that is, how many americans are smart enough to do that. I know i wasnt when i got my first loan. In only 5 years, ive learned so much financially, i wish i could go back and change some stuff.

i dont think simply advising people to do things smarter is going to work. We have a generation totally accustomed to charging everything and spending beyond their means. It goes beyond induviduals too. we have financial institutions and governments spending more than they take in.

Why prop up a failing system. let it fall. and rebuild. yeah, we're going to have some tough times, but if our grandparents and greatgrandparents could survive it so can we. or maybe not. i dont really know how to judge how soft society is today.
 
BigRedB2 said:
I'm not changing my mind about my views on intrest. $122,000 in intrest on a $94,000 loan? if i read my ammortization info from my loan correctly, not only does the bank get back the $94k i borrowed, but they get an additional $122k. 5th grade math tells me thats not right. If a bank is going to charge me 6.5% intrest, they they oughta get $6110.00 when its all said and done. Its rediculous that you think compounded intrest is okay and i cant believe the fleece has been pulled over americans eyes for so long.
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Ummm, have you ever had money? What if say, you had the 94,000 in cash...you put it in a savings account for retirement. After 30 years, all you have in the account is 100,110.00. (6.5% x 1). Is that fair? Same thing.

BigRedB2 said:
Ive paid $42000 in mortgage payments and $38K of that has been in intrest. Thats 41%. Thats 8.2% a year. more than almost 3 times your stated inflation rate. I think the bank has themselves covered. if i paid off the loan today, the bank has made a profit of $38k even with 3% a year, thats a hell of a margin.
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Do you know were banks get money to loan out in the first place? People with money depositing their money and getting paid interest for the use of their money. Savings accounts, CD's, etc....

Do you know where the big mortgage companies get money to loan out? Stockholders...who want a return on their investments. As an investor, would you be happy with a just portion of that 6,110 if you invested 94,000 for thirty years???
 
kaiser715 said:
Ummm, have you ever had money? What if say, you had the 94,000...you put it in a savings account for retirement. After 30 years, all you have in the account is 100,110.00. (6.5% x 1). Is that fair? Same thing.
Click to expand...

Seems perfectly fair to me. i didnt break any sweat for that extra 6.5% why should i even expect the 6.5?


kaiser715 said:
Do you know were banks get money to loan out in the first place? People with money depositing their money and getting paid interest for the use of their money. Savings accounts, CD's, etc....
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no, they get it from the federal reserve or they borrow it from other banks.

what you just said contradicts itself. either depositors are giving the bank money or the bank is giving depositors money.

perhaps you mean they are paid credit in return for leaving their money "in" a bank.

dont get it wrong. the banks make their money on mortgages and credit cards.





kaiser715 said:
Do you know where the big mortgage companies get money to loan out? Stockholders...who want a return on their investments. As an investor, would you be happy with a just portion of that 6,110 if you invested 94,000 for thirty years???
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As an investor? thats my f'ing point! im sick of hearing about pleasing the investor! what happened to pleasing the customer. The whole things gotten so out of hand, that in order for me to borrow 100k i have to repay 300k to KEEP INVESTORS HAPPY.

I cant believe how eager you guys are to bend over and take this in the name of "the free market"'.



My view of the market is radical and i realize i am the only one who sees it that way. I just dont see having an open exchange market as being healthy for an economy.
 
What happens when the people that bail out the others need help. Also the company I used to work for announced today they are shutting down 9 plants(4000 people). Probably another round of bail outs.
 
BigRedB2 said:
Gadget, im with you 100% on everything youve said.
the only problem with that is, how many americans are smart enough to do that. I know i wasnt when i got my first loan. In only 5 years, ive learned so much financially, i wish i could go back and change some stuff.
............
Why prop up a failing system. let it fall. and rebuild. yeah, we're going to have some tough times, but if our grandparents and greatgrandparents could survive it so can we. or maybe not. i dont really know how to judge how soft society is today.
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It's time for you to back up and start over, sell what you don't need and don't waste money and pay stuff off.
That is the only way to change it may be that you need to start over and sell your house. You would feel better to not owe tha bank anything then to owe CC and the bank loans and house loan.



BigRedB2 said:
no, they get it from the federal reserve or they borrow it from other banks.
what you just said contradicts itself. either depositors are giving the bank money or the bank is giving depositors money.
perhaps you mean they are paid credit in return for leaving their money "in" a bank.
dont get it wrong. the banks make their money on mortgages and credit cards.
As an investor? thats my f'ing point! im sick of hearing about pleasing the investor! what happened to pleasing the customer. The whole things gotten so out of hand, that in order for me to borrow 100k i have to repay 300k to KEEP INVESTORS HAPPY.
I cant believe how eager you guys are to bend over and take this in the name of "the free market"'.
My view of the market is radical and i realize i am the only one who sees it that way. I just dont see having an open exchange market as being healthy for an economy.
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Ask to look at the books from the SECU and see the money they have coming in and going out they for the most part only use what is put into the bank from people using it. If you get a loan it may be your friends money.

If the sustem fails you have no clue what could happen.
In the fine print a bank can call a loan due and you must redo it with a different bank or pay it off. If the system fails and they ask you to pay the loan on your house or car and you don't you will be out on the street.
Is that what you want.
By the way if the F'ing investers pull there money out, things would stop as we know it today, you would not have food on the table and gas in you tank. Nevermind the fact that there would never be anymore new cars or jeeps.
Look around you everything you see, was part of a investor.
Even you, if not for your dad, being a investor, you would not had a chance at life, ask your mom.......:rolleyes:
 
investor= stock holder= company owner

How can you ell a public that owns a company they do not deserve to profit?
Of course you keep the investors happy. Just like your job, dont keep your boss happy you dont keep your job.
 
lockedup5 said:
You are one of the few people that doesn't want to extend their credit as far as they can.
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I guess my point wasn't so much, hey I did it right. More to the effect of; Me being someone who wasn't a Finance or Economics major and quite honestly didn't understand much about it, how is it that I knew something was WAY wrong with those types of loans, but financial forecasters didn't see this coming? How Could Banks not see this coming? Did they not think that they were gonna eventually get screwed? Or maybe they knew the Fed would step in and do what they are doing right now. hhhmmm.

Oh and I find it funny yet enraging to still see Marketing Commercials for AIG on the TV :shaking: sorry you had your chance get out of the pool! and same goes for your Clients that defaulted, get out of the house we're gonna auction it off.
 
just got this forwarded email from my dad, I love this idea!!!!


__________________________________

I LOVE THIS PROPOSAL !!


I'm against the $85,000,000,000.00 bailout of AIG.

Instead, I'm in favor of giving $85,000,000,000 to America in

a We Deserve It Dividend.

To make the math simple, let's assume there are 200,000,000

bonafide adults in the U.S.

Our population is about 301,000,000 +/- counting every man, woman

and child. So 200,000,000 might be a fair stab at adults 18 and up..

So divide 200 million adults 18+ into $85 billon that equals $425,000.00.

My plan is to give $425,000 to every person 18+ as a

We Deserve It Dividend.

Of course, it would NOT be tax free.

So let's assume a tax rate of 30%.

Every individual 18+ has to pay $127,500.00 in taxes.

That sends $25,500,000,000 right back to Uncle Sam.

But it means that every adult 18+ has $297,500.00 in their pocket.

A husband and wife has $595,000.00.

What would you do with $297,500.00 to $595,000.00 in your family?

Pay off your mortgage – housing crisis solved.

Repay college loans – what a great boost to new grads

Put away money for college – it'll be there

Save in a bank – create money to loan to entrepreneurs.

Buy a new car – create jobs

Invest in the market – capital drives growth

Pay for your parent's medical insurance – health care improves


Enable Deadbeat Dads to come clean – or else

Remember this is for every adult U S Citizen 18+ including the folks

who lost their jobs at Lehman Brothers and every other company

that is cutting back. And of course, for those serving in our Armed Forces.

If we're going to re-distribute wealth let's really do it...instead of trickling out
a puny $1000.00 ( 'vote buy' ) economic incentive.

If we're going to do an $85 billion bailout, let's bail out every adult U S Citizen 18+!

As for AIG – liquidate it.

Sell off its parts.

Let American General go back to being American General.

Sell off the real estate.

Let the private sector bargain hunters cut it up and clean it up.

Here's my rationale. We deserve it and AIG doesn't.

Sure it's a crazy idea that can 'never work.'

But can you imagine the Coast-To-Coast Block Party!

How do you spell Economic Boom?

I trust my fellow adult Americans to know how to use the $85 Billion

We Deserve It Dividend more than I do the geniuses at AIG or in Washington DC.

And remember, The Birk plan only really costs $59.5 Billion because $25.5 Billion is returned

instantly in taxes to Uncle Sam.

Ahhh...I feel so much better getting that off my chest.
 
Hey, I love the We Deserve it Dividend!! :)

Only problem is, EVERYBODY will quit work. :( Then there will be no gas, no restaurants, no groceries, ...

'til it's all blown at wal-mart...

Then 90% of the money will go to China. :(
 
Not to be the spoiler here, but check your math. 85bil over 200mill is $425 dollars a piece.

I still think its a much better idea.
 
jeepinmatt said:
Not to be the spoiler here, but check your math. 85bil over 200mill is $425 dollars a piece.

I still think its a much better idea.
Click to expand...

ah, good catch! I didn't bother reading itt for Math, but for the Joke, figured there had to be something wrong with the idea... just didn't think it would've been THAT WRONG.
 
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