Lift Questions (Scout II)

cmfireman

New Member
Joined
Oct 16, 2006
Location
Bostic, NC
I have a '74 Scout II w/ a D44 rear and D30 front axle, and I have read that if a spring over is performed on this vehicle, the knuckles have to be twisted for the front axle because of driveline angles.My scout is going to be 100% off-road and I was just curious if I would have to sitll have this done.

The cheapest 4" kit I have found is around $500 and I'm really trying to get by cheap. If anyone knows of a better option to lift this Scout I would appreciate the input. I have also considered putting a D44 up front, would that change anything in the spring over process?:confused:
 
You should be able to do the spring over. If it is 100% off road, you will be fine. The castor helps with tracking straight down the road. I would weld the front perches EXACTLY opposite of the factory locations and you should be fine. I, personally, would swap in the 44 at the same time since it is the same amount of work. You could probably PM JPScout on this board. I am sure he would be able to help with info and probably has a few 44s laying around.
 
thanks UglyJeep, I found a Scout D44 for $200 in the classifieds, but I may check out JPScout. I guess now I just need to find a plasma or cutting torch to get rid of the weld on the passenger front leafs.

Anyone else have some insight/ideas/experiences??
 
hey man i got a front and rear 44 out of a scout 2.
$100 each.
in the shelby area, not to far from you.
pm if intrested.

dawg
 
binderbulletin

You need to visit www.binderbulletin.org.
There's a plethora of information there regarding the spring over "SOA". You can search there for free and there are many photos. I personally wouldn't do a spring-over without turning the knuckles. The stock front driveshaft will bind if you try to keep "decent" castor on the front axle. If you rotate the pinion up towards the t-case you'll then have negative castor. Negative (forward tilting) castor will be a steering/handling nightmare above ~20 mph. Either way, you'll probably be looking at a non-stock front d/s if you go SOA.
How big of tires are you going to run? What are your plans?
FYI, I have a scout D44 front with SOA perches on it (3:54 gears) that I may sell. This axle has not been turned to correct castor. I'm in Raleigh.
 
I'm planning on running a 35" or 36" tire and doing a little rock crawling/4 wheeling at Oak Ridge ORV (Windrock,TN) and Tellico. I also plan to put a detroit third member on the front axle, get some beadlocks, and rework my tubing on the cage. The man I bought the truck from told me it had a dana 30 but I have verified that I already have a Stock Dana 44. I'm really leaning toward spring over.

Do you have any information on who can turn the knuckles and any idea what that would cost? Thanks for all the information!
 
To run 35's with stock springs you'll probably need a slight body lift to prevent cutting fenders. 36's would definitely require more lift or trimming. Those axles should hold up if you aren't really heavy on the skinny pedal.

I overlooked that you had a '74, yeah it should be a D44 up front. There were drums and disks available then, all discs fronts from 75 on.

Anyway, a cut and turn on a scout front axle requires grinding down the welds on the inner "C"s, rotating and welding them back. Of course, spring perches will need to be fabbed. Usually people rotate the pinion up to point at the t-case and run a custom CV shaft. It's possible to keep the pinion "low" and use a traditional shaft, but you'd have to fit it up while modifying the axle to be sure you are equal and opposite to avoid vibes. I've also read that driveshaft clearance can be an issue for an automatic.

Cut and turn cost at a shop can vary widely. I've heard everything from ~$800-$2500. Depends on what you have done. I don't know of any shops in NC that could do it, but I'm sure there are many. If you pull the axle yourself, grind the Cs down to enable the twist and just take it to a shop to weld them up, I can't see it costing more than a few hundred. You also would need perches though. I'm sure there are a few welders on this board that could help you out.

If you're serious about doing it. Spend a few days reading up on the BB to get your plan together. Just do some searches on SOA and grab a beer. There's much to read. There are some great threads from "Doug Shailor" on there, so check that out.

Basic issues/decisions to be made ...

Pinion angle / Castor angle
Reverse shackle or not to reverse shackle
Driveshaft issues
Perches
Shock mounts
Extended brake lines

As you probably suspected, rear is a snap, just put new perches on top.

Good luck!

-Jeff
 
I wasn't clear in stating that my Scout is on its way to becoming a buggy with a scout frame, I don't have anything to worry about as far as tire clearance, the only body panels on there are sheetmetal. The man I bought it from rolled it so he
hacked off the body and just welded a rollbar around it.

I found an article on binder board concerning a DIY SOA swap, and I may have access to a plasma cutter and welder, but after reading the following, I think I'm just going to save my money for a 4" Skyjacker kit and acheve the rest of my lift with larger tires. I want to be fairly capable with this rig, but being my first, I am just trying to gain a decent amount of experience before I attemp to completely build my own. I definately don't want to be broken down on the trails holding up other 'wheelers because I didn't do my homework.

Also, would it be fine to run a 36X12.50 or 13.50 tire on the stock rear Dana44 and the front Dana44 with a detroit third member? (I won't be dogging it, just takin her easy).

I really appreciate all the input!:driver:

"PROS vs. CONS
SUA vs. SOA
Let the debate begin!
The following are my personal observations having driven my Scout in various forms since 1998 and various lifts from none, to 4" SUA to SOA.
RIDE:
My worn out stock springs = BAD
My new 4" Skyjackers with all new bushings = Good
My SOA on stock springs = OK
LIFT:
Stock = BAD 0"
4" Skyjackers = Good initially, but the rear sagged in a year or so, the front was solid the whole time. 3.5"-4"
SOA = Not as 'good' as it was promoted, but remained solid for years. 4"-5"
HANDLING:
Stock = OK
4" Skyjacker = Fine
SOA = OK, the increased caster angle did help general handling.
(This category is really hard as other factors changed at the same time and it is unfair to compare handling across the board...)
STEERING:
Stock = OK
4" Skyjacker = OK, pretty much the same as stock.
SOA (With conversion to high steer) = EXCELLENT, drives like a modern truck even with worn out components and large tires.
OFF ROAD ABILITY:
Stock = Good! (These are Scouts we are talking about)
4" Skyjackers = Great - the rear flexed great, the front was stiff but worked fine and the lift really improved tire size choices, which improved off roading.
SOA = BEST! FLex all around was greatly improved, lift and tire clearance was better.
BREAKAGE:
Stock = BEST!
4" Skyjackers = Good - I did have trouble inverting shackles with the lift springs. I also had increased axle wrap in the rear.
SOA = WORST - I have bent the soft stock springs, rear axle wrap is increased, I have bent front springs, torn spring mounts off, etc. With the use of stock springs in the SOA you are really testing the strength of a spring designed for SUA and the newest stock springs are 26 years old... Using 'new' stock springs would help, as well as building a rear anti-wrap/traction bar.
SUM TOTAL:
Stock = OK - if you like lil' tires
4" SUA Lift = Great - Dead simple, easy and strong.
SOA = Good/Bad/Ugly - If I didn't need the lift I'd still be running my Skyjackers
__________________
Chris Pucci"
Taken from BinderBoard.org
Click to expand...
 
My experience has been that SOA conversion difficulties are overrated. You can always find a way to "make it work". Of course I'm basing that on mostly off road Jeeps, I've done 7. Especially since your Scout is not a daily driver, I'd go ahead and try the SOA, what do you have to lose but a little time :)
 
if you play your cards right, you can try the SOA, but leave yourself the ability to go back to SUA. mostly time, as krawler stated.
 
siiassembledl.jpgthis is the cage its brand new and it is ONLY the section to the front of stock rollbar 100$ gets it
cost new is around 350 check it out on ih customs.com thanks for the reply
 
If I remember correctly (I used to have a 79 Scout II), in order to do a SOA lift on the front axle, you will have to grind material off of the passenger side of the diff housing. A quick search on binderbulletin.org brought up this link (http://www.binderbulletin.org/forums/faq.php?faq=ihcfaq_springs_category#faq_ihcfaq_front_soa), which supports my memory (scary). Definitely use the bb, as those guys are very helpful. And, as an unsolicited plug for fuzzy, that is an awesome deal on a cage. Makes me wish I still had my 'Binder.
 
cmfire

seems that we are in the same position with the scout II.

I am also starting to put together ideas for what I am going to do with the recent purchase of a 77 IH scout II. It already has the D44 front and rear along with the trakloc system so that is def a plus. I just have to figure out the lift and building up a tube cage around it so that i can rip the body completely off it.
(anyone wanting parts for a scout, ie. body, windows, bumpers, let me know, they are up for bids)

I also got really lucky with the purchase becaues the seller threw in a new set of 40 inch swampers with no charge..

It has been rough finding alot of information to keep the rig startup cheap so i will have to agree with you there.
 
Back
Top