lincoln lock??

krehel24

krehel24

<- and it begins!!!......
Joined
Mar 21, 2005
Location
Locust NC
so, after geting up the "ledge" on daniel I thought since i have another 3rd. that it would be good to just lincoln lock it(it toke a little time to get up the ledge). A friend of mine and I are going to try to do it sat., and want to know the right way to do it...if there is one; I know I have to weld the spyder gears but some have said weld it solid and others have said let it slip a little, any insight would be great..and yes I am to poor to by a locker :rolleyes:
 
On a Toyota diff, I've always just welded the spiders to the side gears..gear to gear, not welding them to the carrier. Weld it solid.

There should be some pictures in the IH8MUD.com tech section.
 
Yeah, solid. If you try to fill the gaps on the gears without welding them to one another, it pushes out the weld and the whole thing comes apart.
 
I'm sure you already know this, and some might disagree, but I'd suggest pre-heating it with a rosebud or something. One, to preheat the metal to be welded, and two, to burn out any oil or solvent residue. I'm no welding expert by any means, but wouldn't do anything but stick-weld it.
 
yeah, pre-heating it is a good idea.. good point.

I did mine with a 175 MIG with gas and only a propane torch for preheating, and watched the gear material melt as I was welding it, there certainly wasn't any penetration issues.

My last third (the one I just broke the pinion on) was done at camp with a 135mig with gas, I'll snap some pics of that, but the weld has held up just fine.

Every broken welded diff I've laid eyes on (2) were welded with gaps in the spiders, like that link that Bucket gave.. Hell, looking at the pics on that page, there doesn't *appear* to be much of any penetration into the side gear metals.
 
BUCKETOBOLTS said:
I've never had one to brake and you can always swap it back to an open diff if needed.
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Next time you're in Raleigh, stop by. I still have the pieces in a box somewhere.

If you set it up exactly the way that guy is showing in the article, but weld the spiders and side gears together, you can still swap in new gears or a Detroit later. Just don't weld them to the carrier, and you'll be fine.
 
Ive seen one break that was fully welded, but I think he had some contamination issues... MAKE SURE you get ALL of the gear oil out. Pre-heating will get the rest of the oil out as well. He was just in a hurry and welded away. Ah well, he made time for himself when he broke it!
 
Every broken welded diff I've laid eyes on (2) were welded with gaps in the spiders
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Same here. I even saw one with a few bolts laid in the gaps with gobs of weld thrown on top of the mess. The object is to just keep the spiders from turning, you don't need to fuse any parts together to accomplish this.

I usually just clean the gears with parts cleaner before I weld them. When I was still using my small 140amp 110v welder I preheated and ran it wide open to ensure good penetration. Now with the 250amp 220V I just burn wire. :smokin:
 
saf-t scissors said:
Next time you're in Raleigh, stop by. I still have the pieces in a box somewhere.

If you set it up exactly the way that guy is showing in the article, but weld the spiders and side gears together, you can still swap in new gears or a Detroit later. Just don't weld them to the carrier, and you'll be fine.
Click to expand...

first let me say thank you for all the great info :) :) I have another 3rd so trying to go back to an open diff is not realy a prob. ,with that in mind would it be better to weld it to the carrier??...in the pic is this the only places i need to weld??(all 4 gears)
 
if you're not worried about the carrier being able to go back to being open, i would weld the side gears to the case, and where you have shown in the picture... the least of your worries when welding one up is putting too many welds on there, as long as they are solid welds that hold... dont forget to soak some rags in water and stuff them inside the side gears (where the axle shafts go) before you start welding to protect the splines
 
That's some thick metal you're trying to weld to, (plus I *believe* it's cast?) I don't think you'll get a ton of penetration.

Now someone is going to post and say that they welded the side gears and spiders together, and the gears to the carrier, and they've had "no problems" with it... Well duh, when the gears are properly welded to each other, you won't have any 'problems'...

But if you're set on doing so, at least weld the gears together first so that you can pull the center pin and spin them 180° so you can weld the other side of the gears as well. (Obviously N/A for a 2-piece carrier like a 14b)
 
one question... If you weld the side gears to the spider gears how the hell do you get them back out. I know that on an 8.8 carrier the hole to access the center of the carrier is not large enough to pull the entire chunk of Spider and side gear back out in one piece. So how are you guys saying that you can go back to being an open diff either way? Is the Toyota carrier that much differnt from the 8.8 carrier.
 
No i can not go back to an open diff, but I dont care I have 2 3rd's I just want it to be strong. Rich, I think it is cast and I think if you heat it first then weld it, then it will work, but I dont know if that is the best thing to do, I give you a lot of crap,(because he knows EVERY thing :D ) but if you think just welding the spyders will work, then that is what I will do. Thank you for all your help every one.....O and Rich.. :flipoff2:
 
What I meant was - I wouldn't try and weld to cast with a MIG.. though maybe Rob/Rockcity would know if there's a good way to.

I've done a handful of welded diffs both for myself and some other people doing only the spiders in a Toyota carrier (both FJ and minitruck), and none have come back, and I'm admittedly rough on my axles, as are some of the people who I did the work for.

Exploderpilot - the welded parts will come out easily on your 8.8 carrier, as the formerly 1-piece carrier will be a multi-piece carrier when they do come out. :lol:
 
Rich said:
I wouldn't try and weld to cast with a MIG..
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we welded all of ours with a stick welder after preheating with the rosebud ;)

Rich said:
Exploderpilot - the welded parts will come out easily on your 8.8 carrier, as the formerly 1-piece carrier will be a multi-piece carrier when they do come out. :lol:
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:lol:
 
91yota said:
we welded all of ours with a stick welder after preheating with the rosebud ;) :lol:
Click to expand...

And mine's still alive and kickin' *knock on wood* Much respect for Yotaman's stick welding skills. :D
 
OK, I've been sitting back and reading this whole time.

I'll go ahead and add my $.02

The carriers I've welded in the past I've either stick welded or TIG. However, TIG gets to be too cumbersome and I usually resort to a 7018 on the stick welder in the end. Most have been stick welded with a 7018 and I've yet to have one come back because of a failed weld.

Personally, I haven't MIG welded a diff, but I've seen it done by several people. I don't see why it wouldn't work if its cranked up all the way for good penetration.

Do pre-heat cause it burns off the oil and impurities (important when MIG welding, but doesn't matter as much with stick), it well, pre-heats the metal and gives a better flow for the metal (gets the molecules ready to be welded!!!), and the gears are heat-treated and its always good to pre-heat heat treated metals because of their odd welding characteristics.

All the ones I've welded, I welded the gears first, then welded the gears to the carrier (except the $$$$ 14 bolt carrier). If you run moderate sized tires, weld just the gears, and you should be fine. If you run high HP and big ass tires, weld gears and gears to carrier. IMO.

I've done both and both have held up. I think it all has to do with the welder (person, not machine) doing the work. Quality welds equal better performance with less welding than booger welds all over the whole thing equals same performance with much more work/welding. Put some good quality, high heat welds in there on just the gears and you should be fine. If you don't think your skills aren't up to the "quality welds" standards, then put more weld on there and weld the gears to the carrier.

I wouldn't worry about it being cast, you're putting so much weld in there it will not matter. I've never had the "cast" as being an issue when welding the diff.
 
Rich said:
Exploderpilot - the welded parts will come out easily on your 8.8 carrier, as the formerly 1-piece carrier will be a multi-piece carrier when they do come out. :lol:
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I know the carrier isnt the strongest but i figure if it lasts till i upgade to a 9" I want to be able to sell the 8.8. SO if there is a way to weld the spiders so they will come back out of the carrier I want to go ahead and weld it that way.
 
if ya got a 220 mig and 33s. you should have no problem with MIG welding the gears. Just get it turned up and have at it
 
Just a quick FYI on the 14 bolt diff. When welding it, don't do the skip-tooth method on the spider gears. Instead, weld the spider gears into a "ball". Throw pieces of metal in there to fill big gaps.

From my experience, and others from CK5, the side gears WILL stress fracture and/or break if using the skip tooth method.
 
You guys are making it sound like rocket science. The point is to put as much steel between the gears as possible. In a one piece carrier like a d44 I get the oxy/ace cutting torch and make sure there is no gear oil left, then weld the spiders together--then--weld them to the carrier. If you don't, all of the force is going to be on your crosspin. Some carriers like to break at the crosspin holes, some like to shear the pin itself...either way, you're solving that problem.

If it's a two piece carrier like a 9"....don't waste your time. A minispool is <$15 and a hardened pin $10. 14b guys seem to have a method of welding all of the gears solid into a ball and putting them back in the carrier.
 
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