Lockers and TrueTracs and Gears! Oh My!

JGattonII

JGattonII

Member
Joined
Apr 26, 2016
Location
Statesville, NC
Hi Everyone. I'm hoping to finally get some resolution on the lockers/limited-slip/etc. dilemma. I feel like I've read and re-read articles from this site as well as others where people ask the "What should I do?" question but the responses are never consistent. As a result, I'd like to take a different approach and ask the question "Why wouldn't I be happy with this setup?" So, here goes...

My 2011 JKU is a daily driven 6-speed with 35's, 3.21 gearing and open carriers. I haven't done very much wheeling up to this point, but my wife and I went out a couple weeks ago and I really liked it a bunch. Although I'm hoping to get into it more, I'd be surprised if I'll spend 5% of my driving time off-road. Of that 5%, the majority would probably take place around NC. I don't have any plans to go bigger than 35's but I do feel like there are some reasonable areas for improvement in my axle setup. I don't believe my scenario justifies doing something like 1 ton axles but I would like to apply somewhat of a "better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it" mentality. My thoughts are as follows:

Stay with the D30/D44 combination but re-gear to 4.56 or 4.88*. Beef them up w/ gussets, upgraded shafts, sleeves/trusses, etc. and add a TrueTrac to the front / ARB locker in the rear. *Although 4.88's would increase my cruising RPM's, I'm already running close to 2500 @ 70 in 4th gear. Right now, I can only run in 5th if I'm on a straight-away or going down hill (and in 6th whenever I just want to make sure it's still there).

Based upon the factors laid out above, would you all see any reason that I'd not be happy going this route? Will I regret not just doing ARB all around? Ok, I give up... "What should I do?"
 
Regardless it sounds like you need to regear your DD at the least. But Spend buttloads less by buying a mildly model xj /wj to actually wheel, that you won't feel bad bashing, to get an idea of what you LIKE doing. You can almost recoup any losses when you sell it if you get a good deal and don't sink loads of money in it.

No need to drop money on your DD when for HALF of that you can get a designated beater
 
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Since it is your DD, I wouldn't do much to it at all yet. Spend some time off road and learn the vehicle. Since I doubt you will do much crazy stuff with it, a rear locker, winch, and body armor would be all you should need. What about a Rubicon rear axle with the factory locker? Better yet, try to find a wrecked one that the axles are still good and pull both. That would be a driveway swap that could be done in a half day. Im not a Jeep guy and don't know if it will be a bolt on swap, some other more educated Jeep guys can chime in.

Just a rear locker will take you a lot further than you think.
 
FWIW...

Once you start going up in tire size, re-gearing will help the driveability, both off road and, as you have already started noticing, at highway speeds. How much you re-gear would depend on, among other things... are you at the tire size you're going to be at for a while, (are you already thinking 37s?)...Where does most of your daily driving take place, (city streets or highway)... and where is your off roading going. (EG: Don't pour a ton of money into stock axles if you might consider major axle upgrades in the near future.) It does sounds like you do need a bit lower gear. Search online for gear calculators. They will give you an idea of what gear changes will have what RPM effect, at what speeds. This will help you decide what gears you would be most happy with. Re-gearing is a pretty big investment to get it wrong!

A locker is always a plus offroad. Pretty much a necessity when its muddy slick! About any locker is a good investment. An ARB is a substantial investment, but it is the most user friendly set up on the road. Also consider what sgtbriangreen said, "dont need to do too much to it yet". Spend some offroad time in it first. Bear in mind...I have wheeled every trail and just about every line at Uwharrie in a bone stock '67 CJ5, 4 cyl, open diffs both ends with 7" tires. The less you start with, the more you will learn about the capabilities of you and your set up. And as you continue to wheel, you will find the definite direction, and how far, you will want to go with the Jeep!
 
I have an '08, 2 door, 6 speed DD. It came with 3.21 gear ratio as well and I had 285's on it with 2.5" of lift.

I went to Uwharrie almost every weekend in 2014 and never had a problem. Never broke a thing. It went up Daniel many times and the full left side of the Little Daniel hill climb on Dickey Bell many times. I was surprised and impressed with what it was able to do nearly stock.

In 2015 I re-geared to 4.56 and went to 35" tires and appropriate wheels. Man, what a difference! Nothing could stop it. I also drive on the highway every day and love it.

I recommend a re-gear and drive it. You (and I) don't wheel enough to necessitate too many upgrades. Take it easy on the skinny pedal, and let the brake lock diff do its job and you'll be surprised what it can do.
 
Wow guys! Totally different direction than what I was expecting, but thank you! Seems like a lot of great advice that I will definitely take into consideration. One thing I guess I should've mentioned in the OP was that although this is my DD, it's not my only vehicle ('11 Ram 2WD w/ Hemi).

ol'Jeeps said:
The less you start with, the more you will learn about the capabilities of you and your set up. And as you continue to wheel, you will find the definite direction, and how far, you will want to go with the Jeep!
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I like this a lot and look forward to where the Jeep takes me!

CasterTroy said:
Regardless it sounds like you need to regear your DD at the least.
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ol'Jeeps said:
It does sounds like you do need a bit lower gear.
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I totally agree - and it is really the catalyst for why I started thinking about all of this in the first place, i.e. I have to pull the carriers to re-gear. If I'm planning on more off-roading in the future then I'd think it would be the perfect time to install a locker and/or limited slip.

ol'Jeeps said:
Search online for gear calculators. They will give you an idea of what gear changes will have what RPM effect, at what speeds. This will help you decide what gears you would be most happy with.
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Thank you for the reference. I've actually already used those, as well as advice from others I've talked to, in determining that 4.56's sound ideal for daily driving but that the 4.88's would still provide acceptable on-road performance while giving me a little better ratio for the trails.

ol'Jeeps said:
are you at the tire size you're going to be at for a while, (are you already thinking 37s?)
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As mentioned in my OP, I don't have any plans to go bigger than 35's at this time.

sgtbriangreen said:
Since it is your DD, I wouldn't do much to it at all yet.
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Too late! :D

sgtbriangreen said:
Since I doubt you will do much crazy stuff with it, a rear locker, winch, and body armor would be all you should need.
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Totally agree, which is why I posted this thread. I bought my Jeep to have fun with it and to take it off-road. Do I want to totally bash it? No, not really - but I also didn't buy it to be a mall crawler. I've installed bumpers, rockers and winch so was now looking for advice on a Locker/Limited Slip setup.

CasterTroy said:
No need to drop money on your DD when for HALF of that you can get a designated beater
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I've thought about that, but that's not really the route I'm wanting to take. Plus, I can just imagine the look on my wife's face when saying "Hey honey! I just bought a vehicle to do - what I told you I was getting the Jeep to do!"

sgtbriangreen said:
What about a Rubicon rear axle with the factory locker? Better yet, try to find a wrecked one that the axles are still good and pull both.
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Thought about this too - but if the research I've done is accurate, it doesn't really gain me much of anything over the setup posted above. Based upon the prices I've ran across, Front Rubi axles go for around $2,500. (There's one listed in NC on car-parts.com that's $2,400 but at the shop right now getting fixed b/c it was bent). Complete sets can be had for around $3,500. On the other hand, I could buy a built D30 (gusseted, sleeved, chromoly shafts w/ 4.88 gears already installed) for around $1,000. As for the rear, the main difference between mine and a Rubi would be the locker and gearing. If I'd go all out w/ ARB lockers front and back, I'd be looking at around $2,000. I'd think that installing them (along with the rear r&p I got with the $1,000 front) would result in a much stronger build than stock Rubi D44's and plenty stout enough for the kind of wheeling I'm currently planning to do.

ol'Jeeps said:
Bear in mind...I have wheeled every trail and just about every line at Uwharrie in a bone stock '67 CJ5, 4 cyl, open diffs both ends with 7" tires.
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Rogue said:
I have an '08, 2 door, 6 speed DD. It came with 3.21 gear ratio as well and I had 285's on it with 2.5" of lift. I went to Uwharrie almost every weekend in 2014 and never had a problem. Never broke a thing. It went up Daniel many times and the full left side of the Little Daniel hill climb on Dickey Bell many times. I was surprised and impressed with what it was able to do nearly stock. In 2015 I re-geared to 4.56 and went to 35" tires and appropriate wheels. Man, what a difference! Nothing could stop it. I also drive on the highway every day and love it.
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I guess my goal in all of this at this moment would be the ability to (safely) traverse all trails at Uwharrie w/o winching (those ledges on Daniel look pretty daunting) - and to improve performance from appropriate gearing. Based upon the replies above though, it seems that the money, time etc. for the rest of these upgrades may not even be necessary - and that perhaps I should instead, focus my efforts on just gaining the experience wheeling what I've got...

*Edited to add "(safely)" to the last comment.
 
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I'd keep an eye out for somebody else's old parts, then use that to help make decisions. With both my and Trailhugger's TJs, we got all ready to build/buy a set of axles, but instead found an already-built pair from somebody else's old rig that were cheaper and had most everything that we wanted.

Aren't the non-Rubicon rear JK44s only 30 spline? Maybe 31?

A stock, open diff TJ will run everything at URE... but it won't be easy on the tires.

4lo.com has always been my go-to gear calculator.
 
If it were me I'd just look for a set of Rubicon axles or an already built set to swap in. Then just sleeve, gusset, and wheel/drive the piss out of it. Will still have to regear eventually though being the 3.8 is a slug.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk
 
Shawn's right....surfing for deals is your best bet. SO many folks lock and gear then get wilder and go bigger.

Sounds like you've got a plan already, now you just need to venture out past URE and discover what some FABULOUS wheeling can offer you! (CTB at adventure offroad)

JGattonII said:
I've thought about that, but that's not really the route I'm wanting to take. Plus, I can just imagine the look on my wife's face when saying "Hey honey! I just bought a vehicle to do - what I told you I was getting the Jeep to do!"
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I get it! How will she be with fresh dents and scrapes on this daily driver? If she's fine with it, rock on! Because....there WILL be damage if you play....that's just the way it goes.
Your rockers....are they true protection? I mean rocker protection is good, but sliders (welded to the frame allowing you to rest the weight of the entire rig on) are what save you.
Sliders, Skidplates, diff covers....all KEY to getting over obstacles without damage. You can winch yourself out of trouble most of the time, and if you're wheeling with the right people (See CTB forum) you'll learn real fast that there ain't no shame in pulling cable! But protection is key. You'll get use to hearing the most gawd-awful banging beneath you, but with the right steel under there, it won't matter.

You'll truly be amazed at what you can do with what you already have!
 
Thanks guys. I've been definitely looking in used forums and the built D30 that I was mentioning in the post is an actual potential purchase from @Don M.

As for dents and scratches, I don't think she'd care as long as they're not on her Tahoe! LOL.

Noob-alert: I wasn't aware of the functional difference between the terms "rockers" and "sliders." Mine aren't welded but do bolt to the body mounts on the frame. That'd be close enough to call them sliders, right?

FYI - I'd actually tried to get some underbody skids (motor/tranny/evap as well as control arms) before our trip to URE I mentioned earlier. Called up the guys at RubiTrux and they said they had them in stock. Picked them up in Boone, drove home, unboxed the kit & pulled the evap off the Jeep. When I went to start fitting the skid, nothing lined up. Turns out the kit was for 2012 and up! Another trip to Boone to return. Decided I'd wait until after our trip to tackle the LCA skids. Once I did, guess what... It wouldn't wouldn't work w/ cam-style LCA mounts! Another trip to Boone to return. That time, they gave me a free shirt. It fit...

As for CTB, I actually reached out to @Jason W. just last week. He mentioned that you guys have a Fun Caravan scheduled for September. I'm going to try to make it...
 
Ironically I was debating mentioning Don and tapping his wealth of knowledge given he has been on this very path LOL


Stay away from Jason!!!! He will encourage empty pockets in a way that makes a visit to a really good strip club look like a money saving event
 
LCA skids are a waste of money, IMHO.
 
shawn said:
LCA skids are a waste of money, IMHO.
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The jk rear ones I've gotten hung up on a lot till I built my own and lopped off 2 1/2" of material. The front ones just need them to keep them from folding over on you. But wheeling and picking the right line can help a lot.
 
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