Need Advice!!!!! Transmission Related

Jason924R

New Member
Joined
Aug 1, 2005
Location
Boone, NC
Ok, I was driving out of town last week on the interstate. I make it 10-15 miles on the interstate and all of a sudden my A.T. Oil Temp light comes on. I have been utterly pissed at the work that this guy has done on "rebuilding" my transmission. This is not the first time the light has come on while I was trying to make it out of town. The point is, only being able to go 20 miles before overheating is absurd. So I keep driving with the light on. I was just like fuck it I don't really care at this point, its either going to make it or break down. So I make it maybe a total of 20-25 miles. I'm going up a hill and I got an 18 wheeler tailgating me. I'm looking in my rearview mirror and all of a sudden smoke is billowing out from behind me. The 18 wheeler backs off and switches lanes, and I pull of to the first off-ramp I see. I pull over and turn the 4Runner off and smoke is still pouring out from underneath the car and under the hood. I call the fire department and they come out. Luckily it did not catch fire. We checked it out and pinpointed the transmission fluid had burst out somehow but we were sure it was tranny fluid. I get the report from the fire dept and get the 4Runner towed home.

The next morning I check it out a little and see some electrical tape underneath the rig near the transmission...at the end of a line. I looked for a little bit but could not pinpoint where it came from. The following Monday I tow it to the place that "rebuilt" my transmission. I tell him I am furious at the constant hassle I have to endure with his product. I told him this was unacceptable. He gets back to me the next day and tells me that transmissions have a vent of some sort that will spit it out if it gets too hot or something. It's obviously a cooling problem so I tell him to get that checked out and get back to me. There is already a cooler on there which he installed.

So I talk to him Thursday and he said that there is no line pressure for the cooling system. He said it is a "split year" model and that has something to do with the way it is setup or something I'm not totally sure. Now he told me there is an EPC (Electronic Pressure control) and or mechanical pressure regulation. Now in each gear it is supposed to have a specific pressure. He said in Drive I have 75, in reverse 100 and when you power brake it it is supposed to double. Mine does not. I hope I'm typing this correctly. So I tell him to keep checkin around and see what they come up with. I talk to him Friday and he said that my computer has a TPS code. The code is Code 41. I'm looking here where I wrote down the code and I wrote underneath it from PCM not TCM. (Sorry, I forgot what that means) So I get back to him before they close Friday afternoon and he said he had pulled out the transmission pan or the whole bellhousing what have you. He said by the smell of the fluid inside, he was going to rebuild it again. Free obviously because it is still under the 6 month warranty which runs out October 16th I think.

Here is what he did for the rebuild:

New Banner Kit
New Filter (B)
New Band, Brake
New Fluid
Labor (Rr) (B)
Labor (R) (B)
Shop Supplies
Reconditioned / Rebuilt Pressure Plase Forward Clutch
New Kit, Thrust Washer and Bearing
New Sprag, Low
Reconditioned / Rebuilt Solenod Pack (I think he means solenoid, probably typo)
Reconditioned / Rebuilt Torque Converter
New T.V. Cable

The rebuild was completes on 4/14/05

What would you guys do? Thanks for taking the time to read about my situation. I greatly appreciate it.
 
It sounds like he's trying to make it right. Before you pick it up again make sure he tests the pressure and ask for the numbers. Auto trans do have a vent at the top and will puke the fluid if they get too hot. It makes a real nasty smoke that would make you think that the whole truck was on fire. One of the things that cause them to over heat is too much fluid. That's why it's important to check the fluid after it's warm and while in park. I learned that one the hard way. Anyway after you get it back put it in park and loosen the return cooler line from the transmission. You may have a kink in the line or your cooler might be clogged. If it's right the fluid will squirt out vigorously by just loosening it a little. Do this test after the engine has cooled down and plan to throw out your shirt after you are done. Tranny fluid stinks forever.

If the light ever comes on again park it right away and have it towed to a different shop for a second opinion.
 
1: put a gauge on it. That light only comes on after you're screwed (i.e. hot enough to where your clutches are getting smoked)

2: 200psi seems like a whole lot of pressure.. Obviously, your trans is nothing like my 47RE, but damn that's alot.

But speaking of pressure.. high pressure can indicate a blockage in the cooling system. I'm interested at the FLOW you get.. put the return line into a bucket, and keep feeding fresh ATF into the trans... see how much fluid it pumps in 1 minute...
 
was that your runner at Mr. Transmission on Independence Blvd this past week?
 
This kind of thing will also happen if the torque converter on the Aisin-Warner trannies in Tacos and 4Runners doesn't lockup for highway speeds because of a bad sprague clutch in the converter. Don't know what quality parts he used in your build, but the cheap rebuilt converters are FAMOUS for this fault, and some won't fully lock right outta the box if there's summer heat, larger tires, and 70 mph to deal with, especially in a headwind. A stocker will do the same thing after many miles if pushed hard enough, but they usually give the "failure is imminent" whining sound for a few days.

In general, if the stock converter has a bunch of miles on it and you rebuild the tranny without replacing the converter, or if yer rebuilder only paid a 100 bucks or so for a rebuilt converter, expect this problem to recurr. The cheapies don't deal well with what larger tires and high speeds lay on 'em when they try to lock up. The factory wants it to lock "smoothly" so it won't upset Soccer Mommie, and unless the converter is built with HD clutch pieces, it doesn't take long for the slow lockup routine to cause the converter clutch to get to a point where it doesn't really lock anymore. That slippage means heat, and the fluid will be black and stinky after only a few hundred miles at best. The cheapies won't last even a few miles, much less a few hundred.

This happened to my '99 truck twice before I went and bit the bullet and spent the money on a new full spec converter and a computer reprogram. Then the damn flex plate went south. :(
 
radioman said:
This kind of thing will also happen if the torque converter on the Aisin-Warner trannies in Tacos and 4Runners doesn't lockup for highway speeds because of a bad sprague clutch in the converter. Don't know what quality parts he used in your build, but the cheap rebuilt converters are FAMOUS for this fault, and some won't fully lock right outta the box if there's summer heat, larger tires, and 70 mph to deal with, especially in a headwind. A stocker will do the same thing after many miles if pushed hard enough, but they usually give the "failure is imminent" whining sound for a few days.

In general, if the stock converter has a bunch of miles on it and you rebuild the tranny without replacing the converter, or if yer rebuilder only paid a 100 bucks or so for a rebuilt converter, expect this problem to recurr. The cheapies don't deal well with what larger tires and high speeds lay on 'em when they try to lock up. The factory wants it to lock "smoothly" so it won't upset Soccer Mommie, and unless the converter is built with HD clutch pieces, it doesn't take long for the slow lockup routine to cause the converter clutch to get to a point where it doesn't really lock anymore. That slippage means heat, and the fluid will be black and stinky after only a few hundred miles at best. The cheapies won't last even a few miles, much less a few hundred.

This happened to my '99 truck twice before I went and bit the bullet and spent the money on a new full spec converter and a computer reprogram. Then the damn flex plate went south. :(
Click to expand...

So should I ask him what kind of parts he used? If so what parts am I asking about? As for the torque converter, ask the same question? (Brand?)

About my computer code...does this relate?
 
Resetting the computer is an altogether different thing than reprogramming. The computer that controls the tranny has to be reprogrammed to get the lockup to occur for performance instead of for Soccer Mommie. Each time the converter fails to fully lock, the converter clutch gets more and more galled, and after so many times, the surfaces become damaged enough that there's never sufficient pressure to get it to lock properly. Converter slippage builds heat rather quickly, and is the reason that there's a trans cooler that's part of the radiator.

What happens is that the converter, which is designed to slip at lower speeds is slipping all the time, and the converter clutch, which fails to fully lock, is slipping all the time, too, which is adding even more heat and boiling the fluid. And there ain't many auto trannies with lockup converters that are capable of running with the converter unlocked, much less a slipping converter clutch. They just can't dissipate the heat and weren't designed to do so. Both times mine went out, I was driving at 65-70 mph and the ambient temp was 35 to 45 degrees, so I can only presume warmer temps will make it happen sooner.

The converter itself is not serviceable by any shop without the right (expensive) equipment and the knowledge to do the job, so he's buying them somewhere. Converters can cost between a hundred bucks or so for the cheapest rebuild, and up to 2 grand for a new stocker in some of the high-end cars. If my memory serves me right, the factory converter is 600+ bucks. Good quality rebuilds can be had for $300-400. Cheapies are OK but only IF you know who you're dealing with, but don't expect the life you got outta the original.
 
The Reconditioned / Rebuilt Torque Converter was $226.00

Radioman, thank you very much for the detailed information. I think I'm going to print out some of this information and bring it to him to see if it might help solve the problem and let him know what he might need to do. You rock!
 
If I rock on that subject, it's because I cheaped out TWICE on a torque converter and got bit in the ass and lived to tell the tale. The converter that cost the rebuilder about $120 bucks cost me just over 200 on the bill, which is fair enough I suppose, since that included prepping the converter. He's just trying to make a living. Just remember, it's most likely that your rebuilder bought the converter in good faith and it was defective. Another unit from the same supplier may very well be OK.

Unless the converter is rebuilt by a rebuilder that supplies HD units for performance applications, it won't likely have HD lockup clutch parts, or have the internals furnace brazed, or have the seal surfaces prepped, or several other things that an abused off-road vehicle really oughta have. The stock factory replacement units come as close as anything to durable, but they cost as much or more than an aftermarket unit. The aftermarket 300-400 dollar units will resell to you for more, of course, but they'll be close to or equal to stock durability.

I have a love-hate affair with slushboxes, and I think auto trannies with the right gears in the rest of the driveline absolutely rock in the woods, but I'd rather have a manual for the road. Wonder if a could put a 5 speed in this company '05 Exploder.......
 
haha I've been wheeling in a company explorer before! Saw the front bumper get ripped off!!!! :D

Anyway, you rocking this subject in my words is explaining these details to me that I don't know. The guy doesnt tell me this stuff and I don't expect him to. Clarification I need to make sure the job gets done.
 
Oh yeah, I got plenty of time and experience with building off-road vehicles alright. I just wish it hadn't cost so much gettin' it. It's hard to find good info that's aimed at just what you're driving. So much of what you find is general, and if there might be specific things you need to know about a particular setup, the info's pretty thin.

Based on transmissions from the era before lockup converters, if you had told me back then that a new tranny with a lockup converter would heat at highway speeds if the converter didn't lock, I'd probably have to ask what you're smokin' and not sharin', but we all learn, sometimes the hard way like I did.
 
Well, ask away. I probably took an IFS Tacoma with auto tranny about as far as you can go into radical without doing a SAS. Several of us here have severely stressed the Taco/4Runner platform.
 
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