New dually - Ford vs Chevy/GMC

frankenyoter

frankenyoter

No Rain, No Rainbow
Joined
Mar 17, 2009
Location
DARK CITY
Let’s keep Dodge out of this one.

Long story short is I am getting a new company truck.

Crew cab dually with higher end trim. Was told to plan a day and go shopping. One of my options is a High Country model. I drive a 2011 Denali 3500 single rear axle now and the ride quality is fantastic.

I won’t get the chance to get another new truck anytime soon, so I want to make the best choice.

Now to further complicate this I’ll be getting my CDL so my CGVW isn’t over when I hook up to a 15k trailer. That said I know the ride quality and steering of a F350 is going to be much better than that of a 450, but when towing probably a better ride. On the flip side, this will be my daily so there will be a lot of miles that are empty and not towing.

Please discuss…
 
frankenyoter said:
That said I know the ride quality and steering of a F350 is going to be much better than that of a 450
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Ride quality of the F450 is due to the tires. Aftermarket 22's and tires makes all the difference. As far as steering. Go drive an F450. You will be SHOCKED at it's turning radius. The 350 takes a football field compared to the 450
 
CasterTroy said:
Ride quality of the F450 is due to the tires. Aftermarket 22's and tires makes all the difference. As far as steering. Go drive an F450. You will be SHOCKED at it's turning radius. The 350 takes a football field compared to the 450
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I doubt they will pay for aftermarket 22s but that would be slick. Those 450 platinums on 22s are gorgeous rides
 
I'll give you some firsthand feedback.
The Super Duty dually rides surprisingly well (we had some in our Raleigh fleet). Very close to the SRW ride.
Ford uses the CP4 high pressure fuel pump and they are extremely troublesome. When they fail, it contaminates the fuel system and most times, warranty is denied. The repair costs are in the $15k and up range.
EDIT: Ford blames the issue on water in the fuel and leaves the customer hanging. I've also heard first hand they deny it saying contaminated fuel is the cause. Even when using OEM filters replaced at approved times.
They know it's an issue. Dodge used the same CP4 but recalled them and swapped in CP3s.
Do some research and reach out to local dealer service depts and ask about the warranty issues.
That's why I traded my 6.7 for a Gawdzilla truck

EDIT 2: there are auxillary CP4 devices to catch the metal from pump failure before they enter the fuel system. But we all know how manufacturers are about ANY aftermarket parts being installed on diesels.
 
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GM doesn't use a CP4 on any of the L5P motors/anything 17 or newer. They moved to a Denso HP4. They seem to be holding up better.

Dodge/Ram used CP4s for like...2 model years and that was it. Not sure what they went back with after that.

Ford uses them and an S&S Disaster Prevention Kit is a necessity. That or the DCR pump swap. They've proven to be extremely reliable.

They don't make the Disaster Kits for GMs. The fix there is swap in a CP3 before the CP4 craps the bed. A CP3 won't physically fit in the valley of a 6.7, so it took them a while to come up with the DCR pump swaps.

@frankenyoter Are you limited to a 1 ton? Or would they let you go GM 4500 or Ford 450? The solid axle under the GM would be nice, but you get one either way with the Ford.

I'd be less worried about the engines and more worried about the issues with the 10 speed transmissions. Good news is, they've been out long enough now that the aftermarket has started developing fixes and improvements.


@Jody Treadway Has your 7.3 done the weird knocking thing after towing? A buddy of mine made the haul to Windrock this past weekend and his made some worrisome noises. It sounded like when a converter bolt starts to back out and drag the black of the block or something. Oddly, it didn't increase with RPM.
 
Jody Treadway said:
I'll give you some firsthand feedback.
The Super Duty dually rides surprisingly well (we had some in our Raleigh fleet). Very close to the SRW ride.
But...both of your options use the CP4 high pressure fuel pump and they are extremely troublesome. When they fail, it contaminates the fuel system and most times, warranty is denied. The repair costs are in the $15k and up range.
EDIT: Ford blames the issue on water in the fuel and leaves the customer hanging. I've also heard first hand they deny it saying contaminated fuel is the cause. Even when using OEM filters replaced at approved times.
They both know it's an issue. Dodge used the same CP4 but recalled them and swapped in CP3s.
Do some research and reach out to local dealer service depts and ask about the warranty issues.
That's why I traded my 6.7 for a Gawdzilla truck

EDIT 2: there are auxillary CP4 devices to catch the metal from pump failure before they enter the fuel system. But we all know how manufacturers are about ANY aftermarket parts being installed on diesels.
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Just did some googling and it looks like in 2017 GM switched to a Denso HP4 pump and dropped the CP4.

The company just had a 2020 f550 with 38k go down. It just went to shop yesterday and I’m curious if that was the pump.

Just based on this little bit of knowledge, I’m swayed to a Duramax.
 
Chevy interiors are not up to par with Ford. Both make great trucks. The Duramax/Allison combo works extremely well, and if you're happy with the 2011, you can't go wrong with another just like it. Since it's a company truck, I wouldn't be as concerned about CP3/CP4 reliability.

Are you doing more short trips or long trips? If short trips (less than a half hour), I'd go with a gasser, long trips or heavy towing/hauling, I'd go with a diesel.

The good thing about a Duramax is the 20+ years of evolution of the same motor. But Ford is at 10+ years now, and same with Ram. They all are solid except for a few isolated issues. If turning radius is important, go with a Chevy or an F450. It's night and day difference compared to an F250/350.
 
frankenyoter said:
Just did some googling and it looks like in 2017 GM switched to a Denso HP4 pump and dropped the CP4.

The company just had a 2020 f550 with 38k go down. It just went to shop yesterday and I’m curious if that was the pump.

Just based on this little bit of knowledge, I’m swayed to a Duramax.
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Didn't know that. I'll amend my reply
 
Croatan_Kid said:
@Jody Treadway Has your 7.3 done the weird knocking thing after towing? A buddy of mine made the haul to Windrock this past weekend and his made some worrisome noises. It sounded like when a converter bolt starts to back out and drag the black of the block or something. Oddly, it didn't increase with RPM.
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No noises out of mine at all. I tow between 9k and 10k with it pretty frequently w/o any issues or noises.
@ghost and I were chatting just yesterday about how satisfied we both are with them.
 
frankenyoter said:
The company just had a 2020 f550 with 38k go down. It just went to shop yesterday and I’m curious if that was the pump.
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My first guess would be something emissions related...unless it actually QUIT quit.
 
Jody Treadway said:
No noises out of mine at all. I tow between 9k and 10k with it pretty frequently w/o any issues or noises.
@ghost and I were chatting just yesterday about how satisfied we both are with them.
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He was dragging about 10k. I think his has 6800 miles on it? It's a '24 model. I had read a few things about lifters and a few motors getting replaced, but that was about it. It was also hard to pinpoint where the noise was coming from via a video as well. He said it quit doing it after 10 minutes or so. Who knows?
 
Croatan_Kid said:
He was dragging about 10k. I think his has 6800 miles on it? It's a '24 model. I had read a few things about lifters and a few motors getting replaced, but that was about it. It was also hard to pinpoint where the noise was coming from via a video as well. He said it quit doing it after 10 minutes or so. Who knows?
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Not sure why but we have had over 10 at my job replaced under warranty. Comes in for a misfire and dealer ends up putting a new motor in under warranty.
 
Croatan_Kid said:
He was dragging about 10k. I think his has 6800 miles on it? It's a '24 model. I had read a few things about lifters and a few motors getting replaced, but that was about it. It was also hard to pinpoint where the noise was coming from via a video as well. He said it quit doing it after 10 minutes or so. Who knows?
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The only issue I have had is at one point on the way back from Atlanta my engine reved and transmission seemed to down shift on the interstate. I pulled over shut it down restarted and continued home. Dealer checked it and it had no codes. Has not done ti since.

jeepyjman said:
Not sure why but we have had over 10 at my job replaced under warranty. Comes in for a misfire and dealer ends up putting a new motor in under warranty.
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The 7.3 Godzilla? What years? There were some early issue with them that ended up being spark plug wires.
 
ghost said:
The only issue I have had is at one point on the way back from Atlanta my engine reved and transmission seemed to down shift on the interstate. I pulled over shut it down restarted and continued home. Dealer checked it and it had no codes. Has not done ti since.



The 7.3 Godzilla? What years? There were some early issue with them that ended up being spark plug wires.
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that I am not sure. All had less then 40k on them.
 
jeepyjman said:
Not sure why but we have had over 10 at my job replaced under warranty. Comes in for a misfire and dealer ends up putting a new motor in under warranty.
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Tool dealer just had his truck motor replaced under warranty. He was saying they can’t handle the idling like the hemi motors. Cam and lifter failure. Long block replaced. Unfortunately half his job is idling in parking lots.
 
Noel said:
Tool dealer just had his truck motor replaced under warranty. He was saying they can’t handle the idling like the hemi motors. Cam and lifter failure. Long block replaced. Unfortunately half his job is idling in parking lots.
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I believe thats exactly the case with these. They are municipality so Im sure its alot of idling.
 
jeepinmatt said:
Chevy interiors are not up to par with Ford. Both make great trucks. The Duramax/Allison combo works extremely well, and if you're happy with the 2011, you can't go wrong with another just like it. Since it's a company truck, I wouldn't be as concerned about CP3/CP4 reliability.

Are you doing more short trips or long trips? If short trips (less than a half hour), I'd go with a gasser, long trips or heavy towing/hauling, I'd go with a diesel.

The good thing about a Duramax is the 20+ years of evolution of the same motor. But Ford is at 10+ years now, and same with Ram. They all are solid except for a few isolated issues. If turning radius is important, go with a Chevy or an F450. It's night and day difference compared to an F250/350.
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I’ve got a 30 minute drive to the office every day. Aside from that it’s all over the place. I may drive one hour or all day to get where I need to be for a project. Half those trips might be pulling a trailer.

I bet a 4500 or 450 would be fine. Often they aren’t as much as the 1 tons. Comfort driving has to be key. I do not want to get beat to death if I’m empty.
 
frankenyoter said:
I bet a 4500 or 450 would be fine. Often they aren’t as much as the 1 tons. Comfort driving has to be key. I do not want to get beat to death if I’m empty.
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For good ride, you'd want an F450 pickup. As far as I'm aware, the Ram and GM 4500's are only available bedless as a cab and chassis truck and are setup for major payload. The F450 cab and chassis is also a payload machine, whereas the F450 pickup is for Tex to haul his horses is style with the same drivetrain as the C&C trucks, but a pickup bed, fancy features, and a decent ride. (and not detuned like the C&C trucks)
 
jeepinmatt said:
For good ride, you'd want an F450 pickup. As far as I'm aware, the Ram and GM 4500's are only available bedless as a cab and chassis truck and are setup for major payload. The F450 cab and chassis is also a payload machine, whereas the F450 pickup is for Tex to haul his horses is style with the same drivetrain as the C&C trucks, but a pickup bed, fancy features, and a decent ride. (and not detuned like the C&C trucks)
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We found a 450 platinum crew cab all trucked out a year or two ago and boss wanted to get it.

I can’t find one now that he’s got the checkbook out.

Currently what I can find available is a f350 lariat (HO 6.7) and a 3500 high country. The ford looks slick inside but turning radius is a bit of need for me to have a chance of getting a trailer into my property (worlds smallest dead end street).

Probably go drive and fondle stuff in a week or so and see what happens.
 
frankenyoter said:
We found a 450 platinum crew cab all trucked out a year or two ago and boss wanted to get it.

I can’t find one now that he’s got the checkbook out.

Currently what I can find available is a f350 lariat (HO 6.7) and a 3500 high country. The ford looks slick inside but turning radius is a bit of need for me to have a chance of getting a trailer into my property (worlds smallest dead end street).

Probably go drive and fondle stuff in a week or so and see what happens.
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I couldn’t ask for anything more out of my 2500 High Country. Decent ride loaded or unloaded and I think the seats are more comfortable than the high end Fords and Rams IMO. The ride might be a little bit rougher in the 3500 but not bad. Check out the GMC 3500 Denali while you’re at it.
 
obullfish said:
I couldn’t ask for anything more out of my 2500 High Country. Decent ride loaded or unloaded and I think the seats are more comfortable than the high end Fords and Rams IMO. The ride might be a little bit rougher in the 3500 but not bad. Check out the GMC 3500 Denali while you’re at it.
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Not sure if I can make the case for the extra cost on a 2025 3500 Denali, can’t find a 2024. Where we are looking to buy probably will make deals on the 24 models but not the 25.

But they have one in transit so who knows. My case is when I get my CDL, I’ll be driving a bit more hauling materials and saving of shipping. Probably lots of hauls to GA where we get timber guardrail. I can spend two days, hotel and golf round and still be cheaper than the line item for freight. lol.
 
frankenyoter said:
Not sure if I can make the case for the extra cost on a 2025 3500 Denali, can’t find a 2024. Where we are looking to buy probably will make deals on the 24 models but not the 25.

But they have one in transit so who knows. My case is when I get my CDL, I’ll be driving a bit more hauling materials and saving of shipping. Probably lots of hauls to GA where we get timber guardrail. I can spend two days, hotel and golf round and still be cheaper than the line item for freight. lol.
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Don’t forget the trail sodas lol 😂
 
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