Perpetual Motion

Futbalfantic

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 5, 2006
Location
Charlotte
So they sell mini hydro plants.
With one turbine you need 30 feet of head and 4,755GPH flow to produce 200w of power. If you pumped the water to 30 feet and let it flow through the turbine wouldnt it be possible to power the pump to turn the turbine?
 
first off, you must consider friction loss in the pipe (and more in every bend, coupling, etc. You have to pump against that friction, in addition to the 30' of lift.

Then losses of efficiency in the generator...then losses in efficiency in motor used to turn the pump.

IOW, no.
 
It is possible, thats why the power companies get rich. They make one unit of power, send it to you, and then get it back through the power lines. Very lucrative business practices.

Ok, Im just kidding. Read what kaiser715 said. There is no perpetual motion yet.
 
NO, what kaiser said
 
But in reference to electricity, I seem to remember back in college, a professor alluded to the ability to effectively steal electricity by building , if I remember, a step up-storage-step down assembly. He equated it as the opposite of what looks like a small substation you might see outside a manufacturing facility. He said due to the capacitance of large equipment, the power requires these to ensure accurate usage is recorded. It's been about twenty years ago so maybe some one else can refresh my memory.
 
its possible but not feasible....Im on beer 5 not in the mood to discuss capacitance and surge kVa but suffice to say
1) the power company would ahve to see such a setup and never allow it.

#2 a home user would have to live a coupe hundered years for monthly bills to cover the cost of construction.
 
they do it that way up in NY :D

Blenheim-Gilboa - Pumped Storage Power Project
http://www.nypa.gov/facilities/blengil.htm

http://www.nypa.gov/vc/blengil.htm

They have a concrete lake on top of a mountain, during off peek time they fill the pond and it is utilized during high demand times to supply........you guessed it, NYC.

AC power is a tricky thing, you can't directly store AC power it all has to be real time, so when demand exceeds supply you see brown outs.

All in all its a very interesting project, been running up there for a long time..

So to put it in perspective for your project. IF you were able to use solar/wind etc, to power a pump to fill your tanks. Then use the supply when needed for more power..

Or dam up a stream and make a hydro dam type setup...
 
Does anyone know how much power it would take to run that pump. You could have 2 turbines in seires
 
Rox&Mud said:
But in reference to electricity, I seem to remember back in college, a professor alluded to the ability to effectively steal electricity by building , if I remember, a step up-storage-step down assembly. He equated it as the opposite of what looks like a small substation you might see outside a manufacturing facility. He said due to the capacitance of large equipment, the power requires these to ensure accurate usage is recorded. It's been about twenty years ago so maybe some one else can refresh my memory.
Click to expand...


think.....Tesla. the man was a wizard with electricity.
 
kaiser715 said:
first off, you must consider friction loss in the pipe (and more in every bend, coupling, etc. You have to pump against that friction, in addition to the 30' of lift.

Then losses of efficiency in the generator...then losses in efficiency in motor used to turn the pump.

IOW, no.
Click to expand...


Without even going into any of that...it takes far more than 200w at 120v to pump 4800gph to 30'. It wouldn't even run the pump with no losses at all...
 
i couldn't get past the 40 feet of HEAD:flipoff2:
 
might not be following this whole concept, but as a well driller, 4800gph is 80 gpm and with 30' of head, it would take a big enough pump that your only option would be 220v and probably a 5 hp pump pulling 12-15 amps constantly. Not sure what that takes to get back to watts, but I have 5hp pumps running 24/7 filling ponds and such and can tell you the power bills are not cheap!!
 
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