Replacing Indoor A/C unit/Furnace

Will Carter said:
And if that's the problem you can paypal me the $hundo. I'll discount to $80 since I didn't have to drive the truck there though.
Click to expand...

You missed the part where he said that the condensing unit was a solid block of ice.

I don't think that has anything to do with it, though. Ice is cold, AC is cold. It should make it work better, if anything.

:flipoff2:
 
Alright I am back...

Should have ate a snickers this morning, I was grumpier than normal.

So let me try to help instead of just being a smart ass.

First you need to determine what the problem is from a macro level then deep dive into the root cause.
My first step is analyzing what you said.

What I heard was "My a/c runs all the time and its still too hot in my house."
So we have to start here.
Too hot? Do you have access to some temperature measuring device other than the thermostat that powers your hvac unit.
If so place it near the Tstat and compare the two readings. We are trying to eliminate the T-stat as the cause of the problems.
Your tstat should have 2 numbers on it. 1- the temperature that it "thinks" the house is and the other being the setpoint. So for example if you tstat said it was 72/72 then it thinks you want the house to be 72 and it is 72 so it wuld command the unit to hang out until needed.
Now back to that comparison. If this 3rd party temp measurer and your wall mounted tstat vary by more than 1, maybe 2 at the most, degree(s) you need to start there. The problem could be that your house is 78, your ass thinks its swampy and the Tstat thinks its a cool comfy 72. Hence it isnt telling the "outside magic box" to work its magic.


If these two measurements (the wall mounted tstat and the independent 3rd party unaffiliated temperature measuring device) are different you do not need to proceed any further until you fix your defective tstat. (By the way you just said it was a honeywell unit. Am I right inn assuming this has a digital display and we arent working with an old school mercury switch bar graph unit?)

Ok now let's progress up the troubleshooting tree. (Please note if you climb beyond this branch without first verifying the above you are wasting your time and may be getting bad info as we move forward. Dont SKIP THAT STEP)

Assuming the temperature measuring portion of the tstat is operating properly we need to make sure it is commanding your "outside magic box" properly.

If the Tstat says your house is 74 and the setting is 72 then you need to verify if the "outside magic box" and the "inside magic box" are BOTH running. If they aren't we have found our first problem. (Most likely, play along experts. I know there are 3 or 4 other potential situations where the temp would spread but it would be "normal" for both magic boxes to be quiet - but we will get there in time)

If the 2 temps on the wall mounted tstat are equal, next we need to determine if both magic boxes can run, and if they can both run on command. (this is key. just because your car as been known to run, doesnt mean it is dependable. the fact that they ran the other day doesnt mean they run everytime they are supposed to)

For our next "test" let's try and drop the setting on the tstat 5 degrees below its current temp reading and lets immediately pay attention to when both magic boxes start doing magic. In fact lets start timing them when they start doing magic and making that magic noise. If they run for at least 20 minutes constant. We can assume that both magic boxes can start and run on command and we can begin diagnosing why they are running but not making you happy.

Ok now let's progress up the troubleshooting tree. (Please note if you climb beyond this branch without first verifying the above you are wasting your time and may be getting bad info as we move forward. Dont SKIP THAT STEP EITHER)

Now we are going to start getting a little more technical. But first, what if...

If for some reason both magic boxes dont run for 20 minutes, check one quick easy thing. If/when the inside magic box shuts off, immediately look at the tstat and see if the display goes blank or if anything flashes on it.
Im back to that clogged drain line. If water/condensate is shutting it down it will likely be tripping the control voltage to the tstat. This should result in either a blank display or a battery icon flashing.


Run these tests and post up results and we can go forward. I'm betting the group think collective can e-diagnose this.
 
Last edited:
shawn said:
You missed the part where he said that the condensing unit was a solid block of ice.

I don't think that has anything to do with it, though. Ice is cold, AC is cold. It should make it work better, if anything.

:flipoff2:
Click to expand...
Oh did I? Well then, his shit's dirty (filter or inside coil) or your low on refrigerant. One of these things you can check. I'd check that first if you want to DIY.
 
Ron said:
Alright I am back...

Should have ate a snickers this morning, I was grumpier than normal.

So let me try to help instead of just being a smart ass.

First you need to determine what the problem is from a macro level then deep dive into the root cause.
My first step is analyzing what you said.

What I heard was "My a/c runs all the time and its still too hot in my house."
So we have to start here.
Too hot? Do you have access to some temperature measuring device other than the thermostat that powers your hvac unit.
If so place it near the Tstat and compare the two readings. We are trying to eliminate the T-stat as the cause of the problems.
Your tstat should have 2 numbers on it. 1- the temperature that it "thinks" the house is and the other being the setpoint. So for example if you tstat said it was 72/72 then it thinks you want the house to be 72 and it is 72 so it wuld command the unit to hang out until needed.
Now back to that comparison. If this 3rd party temp measurer and your wall mounted tstat vary by more than 1, maybe 2 at the most, degree(s) you need to start there. The problem could be that your house is 78, your ass thinks its swampy and the Tstat thinks its a cool comfy 72. Hence it isnt telling the "outside magic box" to work its magic.


If these two measurements (the wall mounted tstat and the independent 3rd party unaffiliated temperature measuring device) are different you do not need to proceed any further until you fix your defective tstat. (By the way you just said it was a honeywell unit. Am I right inn assuming this has a digital display and we arent working with an old school mercury switch bar graph unit?)

Ok now let's progress up the troubleshooting tree. (Please note if you climb beyond this branch without first verifying the above you are wasting your time and may be getting bad info as we move forward. Dont SKIP THAT STEP)

Assuming the temperature measuring portion of the tstat is operating properly we need to make sure it is commanding your "outside magic box" properly.

If the Tstat says your house is 74 and the setting is 72 then you need to verify if the "outside magic box" and the "inside magic box" are BOTH running. If they aren't we have found our first problem. (Most likely, play along experts. I know there are 3 or 4 other potential situations where the temp would spread but it would be "normal" for both magic boxes to be quiet - but we will get there in time)

If the 2 temps on the wall mounted tstat are equal, next we need to determine if both magic boxes can run, and if they can both run on command. (this is key. just because your car as been known to run, doesnt mean it is dependable. the fact that they ran the other day doesnt mean they run everytime they are supposed to)

For our next "test" let's try and drop the setting on the tstat 5 degrees below its current temp reading and lets immediately pay attention to when both magic boxes start doing magic. In fact lets start timing them when they start doing magic and making that magic noise. If they run for at least 20 minutes constant. We can assume that both magic boxes can start and run on command and we can begin diagnosing why they are running but not making you happy.

Ok now let's progress up the troubleshooting tree. (Please note if you climb beyond this branch without first verifying the above you are wasting your time and may be getting bad info as we move forward. Dont SKIP THAT STEP EITHER)

Now we are going to start getting a little more technical. But first, what if...

If for some reason both magic boxes dont run for 20 minutes, check one quick easy thing. If/when the inside magic box shuts off, immediately look at the tstat and see if the display goes blank or if anything flashes on it.
Im back to that clogged drain line. If water/condensate is shutting it down it will likely be tripping the control voltage to the tstat. This should result in either a blank display or a battery icon flashing.


Run these tests and post up results and we can go forward. I'm betting the group think collective can e-diagnose this.
Click to expand...

Although a little smartassed, this is excellent advise. Ron just took a few minutes of his own time and wrote a very detailed flowchart. Kudos to Ron for helping out!
 
I like magic boxes! That's boys, is where the magic happens.


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Until the magic smoke comes out.

Edit: Has anyone checked in the A/C box to see if the magic smoke is still there!??!?
 
BTW, I didnt use the term magic boxes to be a smart ass.
Honest to God, I didnt.

I did use them to add humor.

But more importantly, I dont know exactly what he has there.
He could have (and I suspect he does) a heat pump and air handler.
He could have an outdoor furnace and indoor "package unit" mobile home style.
And its very possible he is less familiar with certain terms than some others so its entirely possible that by using proper terms, even if right may add confusion not solve it.
Everyone knows what magic boxes look like.

Thats hy I use Destiny for all my passwords. Destiny had a magic box.
 
I'm a new homeowner myself (bought my first house in October of last year).

You may recall I posted something a month or so ago about finding a capacitor on a Saturday. I found one and replaced it, but I learned something during that DIY escapade. Don't. Let the trained guys deal with your HVAC. It's just not worth it, a simple mistake can end up costing you hundreds or thousands more than a 100 service call might.

This is one area I will absolutely not DIY ever again. I'm all for saving money, but this isn't one of those things to cut corners on.
 
I do have a heat pump and air handler (interior)

Not to add more anger to this thread, but I was talking to my neighbor last night and I was telling him about my A/C. He asked if I had checked the T - stat. I told him that I was pretty sure that the T-stat wasn't that old, but I haven't replaced it since I had been in the house (3 years). He told me that he has a brand new one that he never even opened and wanted to know if I wanted it and if it didn't work, I could just give it back to him. Worth a try, right?

Ron, I know you asked if I had a temp gun around the house, well I don't.

I went home, opened up the T stat. Took the old one off, Labeled all my wires, hooked up the new one and let it run. I was able to get my house to cool down to 72 yesterday afternoon and it was not short cycling. Once I got it down to 72, it would run for 10-15 minutes and then shut off for another 15 minutes or so. Wife also mentioned that she felt cooler, could be the placebo effect. Not saying that this fixed it or that I am not going to call anyone to come and check it out, I just can't until next week.

But, I'll see how it does this weekend, although I think its supposed to be cooler the next couple of days.
 
Glad to hear you might have fixed it. I don't think there was any hate in this thread. I think all of us were trying to help you narrow down what your problem was. Let us know how she does this weekend.


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Next week will be a good test. The 10 day forecast shows low 90's Tuesday thru Saturday.
 
Glad it might be fixed.!

Btw you don't need a temp gun, a cheap wall thermometer would work fine.
 
Just an extra small piece of advice, go ahead and get a HVAC tech to come out and do a tune up. Winter is around the corner. If you get a good tech, they may be able to dig a little more than just the basics.
 
josh m said:
And by the way you cannot just change air handler / inside unit. your system uses the old refrigerant, Possibly r12 or r22 they are banned and stupid expensive, possibly more expensive than the inside unit. New refrigerant uses a much higher pressure and is more efficient. My mother just ran into a similar issue with one of units on her house. Compressor went out, cost of compressor and new charge of the banned r22 was about the same as a complete system upgrade.


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Click to expand...
407c is a direct replacement for r22
 
Sounds like it might be overcharged. That would cause the compressor to draw more amps. That could also explain the cycling. Either overheating the compressor and tripping the thermal overload or hitting high pressure and tripping the high pressure switch. Any competent hvac tech could diagnos this for under $100 and probably fix it as well.
 
There has been some great advice here. But what I think all the arm chair HVAC guys (I say in jest) here have missed is half your unit is pushing 30 years old and the other half is attached to something that is 30 years old with an expected life span of probably 15 yrs max. My opinion is it most likely isn't worth what a service call costs.
If you want to keep your family cool in the summer and warm in the winter reliably you need to invest in a new system which would most likely include new properly sized duct work.
Kinda like guys who brag that their truck has 600+k miles on it. I have always said anything man built will run forever it just depends on how much money you wanna throw at parts and labor. At some point they coulda just bought a new reliable truck between the tow bills, repair bills, parts bills, and the down time.

Good luck staying warm this winter!

One last piece of advice. And yes I'm an experienced homeowner/contractor/landlord. If you decide on a new system you need to do it quick. The seasons are getting ready to change and all HVAC will soon be swamped by service calls when people start switching from a/C to heat and most won't have time for a full system install. And if they do it will be at a premium!!!!
 
Not to say that something won't happen, but it is doing good now that I installed the new t stat. Not saying its fixed and running at 100%, but it has been at a steady 71 since I installed it. No short cycling. This week should be a good test on it with temps in the 90's. If my system can at least last me through the winter, that would be great...just not a great time right now to be dropping thousands of dollars.
 
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