Rockwells - Overall Costs vs 1Tons

SHINTON

SHINTON

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 17, 2005
Location
Triad area of NC
Would love to see a good / final breakdown on the costs for the 2.5Tons?

Might be better in another perm/tech thread with sources of parts, calipers, or something?

(For comparing to D60 buildups...I know the 2.5 tons are supposed to be mucho cheaper, but maybe they end up nickel/diming you to death!?)

The ride is look'ng sweet, wish I was there to encourage 'more throttle' on Saturday!! [Since I got to watch yet another pinion break on ya last time I saw the FJ at DPG]

Sam
 
rocks can get pricy when you start trying to make them streetable with wheel brakes, manual hubs, etc. but to bring a d60 up to the strength of a rock you're still going to spend a lot more overall.

even fully built, you're still going to have inherent limitations that will always make the 1 ton weaker such as ring/pinion size etc.

for a trail only rig, rocks can be FAR cheaper than 1 tons.
 
This build got stupid pricy because I was doing so much at one time (Did the 4-link, coilovers, full hydro, new engine, in addition to the axle swap all at once, which saves you money & time in the end), and because I wanted to try some things that were a little costlier, like the aluminum links.

OTOH, I got some good deals here and there, like the killer deal on the wheels...

I'll say that the rocks are WAY cheaper than a set of 1-tons, and still cheaper even the way I built 'em. But the crummy steering angle is an issue, which is why I wanted to do 4WS. Funny thing is, the steering angle isn't much worse at all than the Toyota axle it replaced.. :p

If you wanted to do 4WS 1-tons, that would get seriously pricy, real fast.

Was just looking back through the photos.. Did the entire build in 5 months, which included a few weeks off, and also rebuilding my motorcycle after the crash at the track. *Patting myself on the back*
 
Mod note--- I copied these off of Rich's buggy build up thread as it would be a good separate topic for discussion...

Lets keep this discussion strictly to the axles them selfs..

For price comparison sake lets assume:
* Lets not debate the strength issue - If you NEED rockwells then you really don't care the cost. (but feel free to contribute your numbers)
* 1 steer axle and 1 straight axle..
* Keep the suspension aspect out..
* Brakes, discuss costs of both pinion and wheels.. (lets focus on the costs NOT the pros/cons etc..)
* If you had to regear, that counts... add it in...
* First Hand experiences... aka real life costs.. If you had to beg/barrow/steal or dig a ditch to get a part, slap some value on that..
 
My input and cost break down on my 1tons. (rounding up to factor in tax/shipping costs etc.. )

$1200, 1985 D60/14b axles w/ 4.56s, rear detriot, 35spline inners, used.
$ 300 Truck freight on axles
(For discussion/comparison lets assume $1000 Front/$500 rear)

Front
$1000 Used front axle
$ 60 2 Reman Calipers ($30 each)
$ 20 New Brake Pads
$250 WFO High Steer arms..
$200 Steering Links and TREs
$100 Misc seals, 1 inner, spindle bearing,
$300 D60 35 Spline Lock Right
$100 2 Forged Spicer Joints
$250 2 Yukon 35sping outters
$250 Pr. Warn 35s plin hubs
$250 Pr. Mt.Logan Drive Flanges.
--------
$2780 total

Rear
$500 Used 14b axle
$250 Used TSM Rear disk brake kit (PBB) w/ new rotors and calipers.
$ 40 Reman Calipers (mine froze up, lack of use)
$100 1410 rear yoke strap/kit
--------------
$890 Total


$2780 Front
$ 890 Rear
-----------
$3670 Total
 
Here is the break down of my ton axles as best I can remember:

Front:
$1,000 78-79 Ford D60HP
$550 Dedenbear knuckles (one of my stockers had a crack)
$400 Superior 35 spline stub shafts
$200 Warn 35 spline lock outs
$0 Ram (came with front axle)
$225 Tie rod and drag link parts
$30 Hydraulic lines and fittings for ram
$200 4.88 gears
$90 2 Spicer U-joints
$50 2 spindle bearing kits and 2 spindle nut kits
$30 Caliper bracket (my RF was fubared)
total = $2,775 (front is welded = free)

Rear:
$150 14 bolt
$150 14 bolt (2nd one for hub and axle shaft)
$425 Detroit
$200 4.88 gears
$75 Disc brake brackets
$80 Calipers, loaded
$80 Open carrier (for Detroit)
$50 Discs
$50 Brake hoses
$30 One rear wheel bearing
$10 Two inner wheel bearing seals
total = $1,300

grand total = $4,075

That is my no BS cost summary. My front calipers and pads were good, so no extra expenses there. I did have to buy a RF caliper mounting bracket because one of mine was fubared. I also had to buy a 2nd 14 bolt after one of my hubs and axles was found to be fubared. That is the reality of dealing with 20-30 yr old axles. I rounded some prices.

DK
 
Front:
$300 '88 F350 D60 DSD
$175 4.56 gears/install kit
$480 Detroit
$50 Calipers
$200 TJ Bracket kit
$150 Warn hubs (which I found out later I didn't need)
$90 Kingpin rebuild kit
~$85 hub bearings/seals
$250 Hi-steer arms
$130 1-ton TREs
$150 Hydro ram, tabs, and lines
$40 Shorten Driveshaft
TOTAL=$2100

Rear:
$125 Junkyard D60 rear
$175 4.56 gears/install kit
$190 ARB (warranty from D35)
$210 Disc brake conversion kit
$200 TJ Bracket kit
~$85 hub bearings/seals
$40 Shorten Driveshaft
TOTAL=$1025

Grand Total=$3125

If I had it all to do over again, I would not have bought the new hubs for the front, and would have built my own brackets, because that is pretty much what I ended up doing anyway. That would have knocked $350 off the front and $200 off the rear, for totals of $1750 front and $825 rear, $2575 both.

Also, I have sold some internals and recouped at least $100, but have also upgraded the rear shafts to Cro-mo, which cost $230. I sold the stock (modded) D30 for $800, and sold the D35 for $125, so I guess that could be subtracted from the total if you want to look at it that way.
 
I fought it for a long time , but, if you're to the point of considering rocks you have to tell yourself you're going to run a 42" or bigger tire, see limited street use and have a welder/torch or a friend/welder who'll treat you right. I switched when I bought my 49"s, I had a 14 bolt with 5:13's (ran 44"s since like '86) and it just wouldn't pull with the bigger tire. Plus, I lived in Florida for 3 yrs and everybody who goes big down there ends up on rockwells sooner or later, and I do like to play in the mud. I also spend most of my disposeable income on my kids so it was a cheaper route to stoutness. Piney at Chucks convinced me to finnaly switch.


The cost is in the brakes;
If you're a trail only rig go pinion brake and it's really cheap.
Street rig add $1200 and up for hub brakes on both axles.
Welding the diffs ain't that hard.
The axles are square and easy to build off of.
Cost of wheels isn't an issue since you have to buy them for 1 tons anyway.
Steering assist for street I run a 3000 lb ram from Northern ($80) and I tapped my own box (hoses and fittings were $30) and a used cooler from Muscle Motorsports ($25).
Made my own steering arm and cyl mounts, the guy that made Rich's did nice ones.
The lockouts are expensive ($400 - 600 a pair) but I just run one which kept the cost down and let the other side spin.
Links here to call for prices on studs, seals and info on how others built their's. My own build is probably destined to fail horribly but it's been on the street now for awhile.
http://www.nc4x4.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3337

I got my axles cheap (under $600 3 yrs ago) but they required lots and lots of grinding and cleaning.
 
I won't go throught the price break down

Used hp60 front $700 (good deal)
35 spline 4340 inner and outters (2 sets)
Drive flanges after breaking several sets of warn premiums
new R&P twice (broke one)
spicer joints (x6)
hysteer arms with caps built it
psc double ram, ram clevis, hiem joints (4)
Dedenbear knuckles (stock ford knuckles WILL break)
wheel bearings
kingpin rebuild kits (twice now in a year)
cryo ring gear
lockright (yup that's right a lockright)
5 lug conversion with caliper brackets/calipers and redrilled hubs turned down/ rotors..etc..
I added this up awhile back and got somewhere in the neighborhood of 5-6 grand

Rear 9" (cheap right??lol)
35 spline shafts (never broken)
spool (never broken)
1350 billet yoke (never broken)
disc conversion
truss
4 axle bearings (leaky seals)
3 sets of wheel studs (broken)
True hi9 center section (broken 3 times, R&P sets are $350 shipped, plus install kits etc..)
Probably $3500 in the rear before all the breaking, I priced making this a steer axle awhile back for the good stuff it was gonna run another 5-6 grand.

Rocks are cheaper I'm sure and maybe I should've gone that route. However,they are heavy and I've yet to be shown up by a buggy or otherwise on Rocks. This is an expensive hobby if you want to run the big stuff you got to pay the big bucks. I've got more in my axles than I have in the rest of the buggy complete. Feel free to refer to this when pricing custom built axles, they aren't as expensive as you think they are.
 
To build my front rock..

axle: 700
locker (ouverson): 485
new seals & boots throughout: 100
wheel brakes: $475 (got a good deal on the calipers, saved about $100)
new lug nuts: 12 (needed 6 of 12)
Hi-steer arms, you're gonna spend about $350-ish?
Steering ram, I did a double ended 2.5" bore 10" stroke from Surplus center: $230
Worst case, you upgrade to the u-joint axles, and the new bling seals - $450 (I did this on the rear axle, but not the front yet)

total for a front axle that laughs at 44's... $2452

If you do it with a single ended ram, no hi-steer, pinion brake, and weld the diff, but run the u-joint shafts - $1500-ish.

For the 130-ish lbs it's heavier than a front 60, that's alot of $$ per pound IMO.
 
Rich said:
total for a front axle that laughs at 44's... $2452
.
Click to expand...
I dunno, the CJ Jim built for Thad that has been passed around has suffered a few broken shafts with 44's. Yes, way cheaper and stronger, but not worry free until 47 splines are on board. But with your baby foot you'll be fine. :lol:
 
rockmafia said:
Is that why Patrick's buggy is 1000 lbs heavier than Greg's? (you know you have to add in the extra weight of bigger tires)
Click to expand...

Greg doesn't have 2 front 60's. I know the steering rock is a shit-ton heavier than Greg's 9", not to mention the heavier wheels & tires.

Plus, I think the all-aluminum LS1 is a little lighter than the all-iron V6 in Patrick's.

There's your 1000lbs, pal.. :flipoff2:


And yeah, the 16 spline Ouverson shafts are a nice upgrade without going full-bore.
 
rockmafia said:
Is that why Patrick's buggy is 1000 lbs heavier than Greg's? (you know you have to add in the extra weight of bigger tires)
Click to expand...

hey...you only round up horsepower, not weight. it is only 900 pounds heavier, and i put nitrogen in my tires, so that will help.:huggy:

and to add something to the thread. i spent roughly 650 just to upgrade to u-joint shafts in my front end.

so lets see. get a steering rockwell, lets say 750
narrow roackwell -- 200
mohawk rockwell -- 125
one piece boots -- 35 x2 (shipped)
boot guards -- 120 (shipped)
sell repeza shafts -- -120
buy u-joint shafts -- 200 x2
ship u-joint shafts -- 50
overson locker -- 499.95 (sounds better than 500)
buy new seals and retainers (one piece bling) -- 55 x2
new hub bearings (timken 392)-- 65 x2
assload of grease and silicon -- 25
gear oil -- 10


rebuilt rockwell w/u-joint shafts -- 2369.95

pinion brake rotor -- 40
caliper (wanted small, got willwood)-- 105
bling washer shims to center the caliper -- .08 x2
high dollar 2x8 ram -- 60
high steer arm for ram -- 175
2 3/4 heims for tie rod -- 80
weld in bungs -- 20

finished front rockwell with u-joints -- 2850.11

rear steer axle, add 175 (second high steer arm)
subtract locker, use weld instead
finished rear steer axle w. u-joints -- 2525.16

total for 4 wheel steer rocks with u-joints all around -- 5375.27

dont tell my wife, i used the 2k number for the axle estimate. good thing she was wearing those big sunglasses chicks wear because i am sure she was rolling her eyes and ignoring me anyway.
 
Damn, more than I planned. Thats ok, I should only have to get the big purchases like the axles and lockers by the wife...the rest I can "hide" :beer:
 
pheery said:
hey...you only round up horsepower, not weight. it is only 900 pounds heavier, and i put nitrogen in my tires, so that will help.:huggy:
and to add something to the thread. i spent roughly 650 just to upgrade to u-joint shafts in my front end.
.
Click to expand...


You also forgot new boots, and boot gaurds.


And paying to narrow and mohawk them
 
Rich said:
Greg doesn't have 2 front 60's. I know the steering rock is a shit-ton heavier than Greg's 9"
Click to expand...
True, but you can't have a buggy on rocks and no rear steer, that just ain't right.
Rich said:
not to mention the heavier wheels & tires.
Click to expand...
As I said, you get rocks, you got to automaticly factor in at least 44's, anything smaller ain't gonna get it:D
Rich said:
Plus, I think the all-aluminum LS1 is a little lighter than the all-iron V6 in Patrick's.
Click to expand...
By what 6lbs?:flipoff2:
 
Was on a mission to get one ton's when I wanted them, so took first things I found.
Front Dana 60 $1200.00
New bearings, calipers, $250.00 (estimate)
Detroit locker $500.00
Thick Cover $120.00

Rear 14 bolt $600.00
Disk brackets $60.00
Rotors $60.00
Brake pads $20.00
Thick Cover $70.00

Beadlock wheels(weld on) $200 for 5 wheels, $210.00 (before metal went sky high)

Tractor supply do it myself assist All together $115.00

probably more, but that's most of it

Total $3405.00

Still need to upgrade to 35 spline outers and drive flanges
 
Naw, you guys aren't gonna get me to do it! I KNOW better than to add everything up into one total that could somehow, someway get back to my wife! Besides, I REALLY don't want to know myself :)
 
Back
Top