Thoughts on my van

upnover

upnover

Grumpy, decrepit Old Man
Moderator
Joined
Mar 20, 2005
Location
Morganton NC
I, as many of you know and have seen, have a 78 3/4 ton Ford van as a tow rig. One issue I have seen is with the auto tranny, it is a strain to pull up steep hills right off the get go. Keep in mind I was used to my J truck which had the T-18 with a low first gear. I have considered getting a C-6 tranny with possibly a 205 transfer case and putting it in my van, just for the low range on hard pulls. I figured it would be a good gear reduction, and easier on the auto tranny. Maybe down the road, putting a 44 in the front and making it 4wd.
Thoughts??
 
what is the axle gearing now ?

maybe worth the effort to gear lower and install an AOD or similar ?

Or hell, THe AOD should have a lower first gear anyway.

Of course,there is always the option of installing a manual in to the van, then you get the low grunt if a granny low and the Overdrive, AND a really cool Ratfink floor shifter !

That body style was available with a 3 on the tree, so the clutch pedal assy is/was available.
 
3:54 in the tubes
I am just not a fan of AOD esp in a pulling working rig, just me.
Changing the gearing would make me run higher RPM's at cruising speed.

Now doing a manual would be kewl I think, if I had a donor for all I would need. It would have to be a T-18, sure don't want a three on th tree.

I figure finding a C-6 with a transfer case would be a simple swap. Of course, I would go thru them to insure dependability, and still have to option of later making it 4WD
 
How much money are you looking to spend? And what engine is in it now? You could look at a 4R70W. ~2.85 1st gear and .7 overdrive and quite a bit stronger than the AOD too. Just needs some kind of controller. 205 bolts up to it too...

:edit: of course there are c6's that bolt up to most old ford mills and they're cheap/very tough. They just have crap for gearing. Do you only use the van to tow or also for driving?
 
But then you also have the case hanging below frame bottom unless you reclock.

sticking with a T-18 is ok, but think more modern, something with overdrive. Will give ya the low end grunt AND the high end milage.

Am I right in thinking that blue crate of yours is wrapped about a 460 ?
ZF S542 or S547, came in Super doobies and lesser trucks since '87ish.
but then, you could step up and out class all with the 6speed S650
 
78 is carbed? I'd check out the carb, some simple things like the accelerator pump not giving a good solid squirt of fuel could affect performance. Chack the vacume advance on the dist. make sure its advanceing correctly, hook vacume pump up w/ timing light on it.. little things will cause your 'take off' to be not as powerfull as it could be..

-mike
 
Might be just as well off to find an efi f250/e250 or 350 that's been wrecked and take the whole drivetrain--as much as this van's current drivetrain has been giving you problems.

Or just swap the body over? :flipoff2:
 
I want to spend as little as possible!
It has a 460 in it. That little of a gear isn't going to do that much for me, thats why I am thinking of a transfer case. It has a C-6 in it now, no problems, but I know when I am making the clutches slip it ain't good, so a transfer case would keep the tranny from working so hard.
And yeah, basically I use the van only for towing, maybe a few camping trips, but mostly to tow My Heep
 
Power is not an issue, it's there. Higher rpm to make it move when simply coming out of my drive way is(while pulling my Heep). Being graveled, it likes to spin. So it's a run and go from across the yard, sometimes spinning the yard. Again, power isn't my issue, it the getting moving without spinning, and I know that kinda weight, pulling isn't good for it. So my thinking a low range would be the ticket. Not too worried about how far the transfer case would hang, shouldn't be any more issue than it is on a stock truck.
 
braxton357 said:
Might be just as well off to find an efi f250/e250 or 350 that's been wrecked and take the whole drivetrain--as much as this van's current drivetrain has been giving you problems.

Or just swap the body over? :flipoff2:
Click to expand...

$$$$, it ain't there for that
 
Oh and not worried about getting more mileage really , once a month driving, except a few short tips now and then to keep her lubed, I mean to Tellico and back is about $100 in fuel, so no biggie. Would be little less if I wasn't trying to keep up with the Cummins LOL
 
Blkvoodoo said:
You could step up and out class all with the 6speed S650
Click to expand...


I would really put some thought here...
The bolt pattern is available for a 460...

5.79 1st (granny)
.76 OD

and complete freshened up units from BH to TC are available under $1500...then you have gearing, bulletproof (semi), and 4x4 ability...

This would be one trick set up IMO...

Problem with teh C-6 is while touh as nails they are H E A V Y really dont have a good gear ratio for truck use with a 2.46 1st and a 1.1 3rd...plus 2nd is either a 1.46 or a 1.52 so you have a pretty drastic rpm drop 1st to 2nd...

Just my .02...but you prolly owe me change
 
I agree, there are better options than what I want to do. $1500 isn't that much, but, it's more than I paid for the Van. Remember we are talking about a 28 year old Rig, that's used very rarely. I have to think of the fact that I may want to sell it later, so I don't want to take a huge loss if I do. I am thinking cost minimal. Having the tranny rebuilt, $200 to $250 including Torque converter, and the transfer case gone thru seals, bearings and so on for $200 to $300. Installation myself.
Fabing up a cross member or getting one from the donor. I have become a bit lazy, and do like the idea of an auto for pulling.
 
How about throwing in a divorced 205 so you don't have to change the trans?

I like your idea of installing a T-case just to use the low range. I was planning to do the same in my rollback. Even though it has an SM465, I get tired of slipping the clutch trying to crawl it when parking or backing up with the trailer.

I use 2WD low (front hubs not locked) in my K30, Burb, and K5 all the time when going slow with a trailer hooked up, esp on a hill or in a bind. I agree with you - it's so much better for the life of the auto trans or clutch, and gives you more control.

(I'm not talking about road speeds in low range, and I don't try to shift from low range to high "on the fly" - I stop, use low when I need it, stop, engage high, and hit the road)
 
You should also be able to find and NP435 that would bolt up.
If you install a transfer case you'll have to stop to shift into and out of low range anyway so I don't think it would be worth all the effort.
I've towed trailers and loads since I've been driving and planning and looking way ahead is a big part of it.
When I have to start off on a grade, I just ease into it and let it take it's time. My tow rig is a '97 Chevy 2500HD with 350V and 4L80E and I get a little slippage if I punch it from a dead stop on grade when towing. It's been doing that for about 50,000 miles so I just let it. I've pulled my big tractor with trailer and extra implement (over 10,000#) early on so I'm not surprized I have slippage.
 
I gotch now chip, id do exactly what you have in mind, drop in the t-case.. Your driveway is pretty steep pulling out.. If you can get the parts cheep enough i think thats the best solution..
 
thecarman said:
How about throwing in a divorced 205 so you don't have to change the trans?
I like your idea of installing a T-case just to use the low range. I was planning to do the same in my rollback. Even though it has an SM465, I get tired of slipping the clutch trying to crawl it when parking or backing up with the trailer.
I use 2WD low (front hubs not locked) in my K30, Burb, and K5 all the time when going slow with a trailer hooked up, esp on a hill or in a bind. I agree with you - it's so much better for the life of the auto trans or clutch, and gives you more control.
(I'm not talking about road speeds in low range, and I don't try to shift from low range to high "on the fly" - I stop, use low when I need it, stop, engage high, and hit the road)
Click to expand...

Divorced, hmmm now that would save me some money! I would need to look at one and see how it's set up. I have never even worked on one, or climbed under one and seen it. but that is a good idea! Hadn't thought of that at all.
 
R Q said:
You should also be able to find and NP435 that would bolt up.
If you install a transfer case you'll have to stop to shift into and out of low range anyway so I don't think it would be worth all the effort.
I've towed trailers and loads since I've been driving and planning and looking way ahead is a big part of it.
When I have to start off on a grade, I just ease into it and let it take it's time. My tow rig is a '97 Chevy 2500HD with 350V and 4L80E and I get a little slippage if I punch it from a dead stop on grade when towing. It's been doing that for about 50,000 miles so I just let it. I've pulled my big tractor with trailer and extra implement (over 10,000#) early on so I'm not surprized I have slippage.
Click to expand...

For backing it around in fun places like my yard, Tellico, Mnt city at Callalantee, and so forth is where I see the issues with it is as it is. Once on good road not an issue. Also driving in on trail one at Tellico, or driving out through TN side and into Robinsville, the grades are rough, so low range with say a 205 would cut my gear in half, but that would be fine with no more speed than I would use until I go to the scenic parkway.
Looking ahead is exactly what I am doing, trying to keep it rolling and not burn up the tranny

Thanks yagar, you have been here so you understand my dilemma
 
upnover said:
I want to spend as little as possible!
It has a 460 in it. That little of a gear isn't going to do that much for me, thats why I am thinking of a transfer case. It has a C-6 in it now, no problems, but I know when I am making the clutches slip it ain't good, so a transfer case would keep the tranny from working so hard.
And yeah, basically I use the van only for towing, maybe a few camping trips, but mostly to tow My Heep
Click to expand...

My dad had the same van a 79 E250 460 C6. the gearing was 3.07 never had any real problems except the POS holley 4barrel and blowing out power valves. it allways pulled hard had over 200k on the engine rerbult the carb 4 times, and the c6 3 times.
 
How about a limited slip in the rear axle to double the number of wheels helping...
 
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