Two issues: Overheating and Also Posible Torque Converter issue

Ricky B

Ricky B

Wiiide Open
Joined
Mar 20, 2005
Location
LKN - Tha Dirty Mo (Mooresville, NC)
Aight first off I think I had a rather "doh!" moment today, which sucks if my hunch is right because that means I get to remove my driveline again for the 6th time since the Uwharrie 4x4cross, and get to shell out even more dough that I don't have right now :shaking:. I have sucky offidle power/response in the Z71 Jeep and also when I put the thing under load (crawling or boggin in a mud pit) the tires just stop turning real easy and bog the engine out, even in low range. So I just had the thought "hey I have been running turbo 350 torque converters from behind 350 motors, wonder if the stall speed is off in comparison to what a big block torque converter would run . . . . . "

would that be causing my sucky off idleness and ease of bogging downness?




Aight second problem, dangit my dang Z71 Jeep still overheats, and if you've seen the size of my freakin aluminum radiator then you know that something must be wrong. I built a fan shroud, have an e-fan that I always leave on, have a new water pump and 180 thermostat, even just replaced my top end with rebuiltish heads (hot tanked, polished valves and seats, new stem seals) and new headgaskets and whatnot. I mean I have drastically reduced the quickness that it heats up at in comparison to where it was before with the old cracked heads that were pressurizing the coolant system. She stays cool enough to where I can drive around for a bit, do single mud run passes, or like if i tried to do a timed rockcourse. But if i try to trail ride its gonna overheat. I did a 4th of July parade and was basically idling the whole time and barely made it throu the parade, was sweating it at the end, literally she was gettin real close to 240, I can just imagine if I was on the trail in low gear trying to go over rocks how quick it would heat up. Any ideas? kinda stumped on this one . . . . . .

I am running a Holley truck avenger 770cfm, runs good, I recently turned the idle mixture screws out to 3 turns out on both sides (from a previous position of 1.5 turns out on each side) it helped with the overheating, i just don't know where to set them at, everyone just says listen to the motor and see where it runs best at . . . well i mean it runs fine no matter where I put the screws - should I try to turn them out even more to fatten the mixture up more?
 
Is your timing too far advanced? That could cause both issues. Also, does the transmission act up only when it is overheating? Do your trans cooler lines run into your radiator or an external cooler? Are you sure it's not starting in 2nd or 3rd gear instead of 1st?

If you hook up a vacuum gauge, turn the idle screws very slowly and evenly until you have the highest reading on the gauge. After each adjustment, wait a few seconds for the mixture to change. If you turn them too fast you will have little to no effect on idle.
 
your torque converter could be your hole problem it could be that it doesnt have enough pressure to keep it cool or you may have trash in the valve body which would not let flud pass as needed
 
AlphaFourWheelDrive said:
Is your timing too far advanced? That could cause both issues. Also, does the transmission act up only when it is overheating? Do your trans cooler lines run into your radiator or an external cooler? Are you sure it's not starting in 2nd or 3rd gear instead of 1st?
If you hook up a vacuum gauge, turn the idle screws very slowly and evenly until you have the highest reading on the gauge. After each adjustment, wait a few seconds for the mixture to change. If you turn them too fast you will have little to no effect on idle.
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See idk about the timing weather its to advanced or retarded, stock settings for the caddys are from 6* advanced to 12* I had it at 10* earlier recently put it at 3* and really didn't see any difference whatsoever in how it ran. I have been looking at alot of caddy forums for advice but they all talk about timing for stock motors not ones that are high compression/high octane. I posted on one forum with no real results, theres a larger forum buddy of mine showed me yesterday im in the process of registering waiting on there confirmation email, figured id post up there when I can.

The trans doesn't act up at all, I have had tranny's go bad on me before and have a good feeling of what slipping feels like. This feels more like the engine just isn't putting any power out almost like instead of turning the tires it feels like the engine just bogs or isnt engaged unless i nail it when the tires are under load. I can drive around just fine plenty of power but put the tires under load off idle or trying to nail it in a thick mud pit and its like the engine goes away, kinda weird, which made me think the TC just isnt at the right stall speed not putting power to the trans. The trans is rebuilt, has all new clutches and whatnot.

Cooler is seperate of the radiator, but what temp its at doesn't seem to affect how the tranny acts.

Pretty sure its starting in first, i mean when i drive it around in the backyard or on the road it clearly has three gears it shifts throu and the shifts are good n firm doesn't feel like it slips at all.

That vacuum gauge sounds like the way to go to get the carb accurate, can i hook it to one of the big vacuum ports on the bottom of the carb that would normally go to the brake booster?

chris baldwin said:
your torque converter could be your hole problem it could be that it doesnt have enough pressure to keep it cool or you may have trash in the valve body which would not let flud pass as needed
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idk it was rebuilt by a shop in troutman, and then i just went throu it myself when i changed out the 2wd tailshaft for the 4wd one, but this isn't a new problem, my last tranny did this too before it just finnaly went bad n burned itself up at the 4x4cross but idk what the condition of the previous one was before it put it in at least this one i know has all new clutches and whatnot.

would the TV cable affect any of this? Its never been hooked up to the carb throttle, and I've tryed like putting it all the way out and all the way in and it doesnt seem to change anything. I've also daily driven a tranny in that ol 81 truck i had on 44's and 40's for 7ish months that had no tv cable at all with no issues and 4.10 gears and it almost had better off idle power with a 350 then my caddy does so I don't think thats my problem.



When it comes to the tranny it just feels like there nothing there when im trying to get power off idle under load, kinda weird - which is why i think TC bad stall speed but I cant find anywhere what the stock stall speeds are for th350's and 454s with th400's all i can find i just aftermarket ones with whatev stall you want and everyone seems to say th350 and th400 converters are swappable . . . . . so idk
 
1) I *think* you have a th350. If so you dont have a TV cable you have a kickdown/detent cable. On a th350 ot th400 the cable does no change shift quality. IF you have a 700r4, you have already toasted the tranny if the TV isnt hooked up.

2) through all these changes have you swapped the TC at all? If you re still on the same TC that was in when you toasted the old tranny, there is a good chance you have loaded it with friction material and its a giant power sponge right now.

3) On the overheating issues I would look into timing, and also how does the coolant look? IIRC you pulled this motor and ran it and it hasnt been gone through, it is possible to have a cooling passage plugged. If the coolant turns rusty real quick you may have a strong indication there. Redline makes a product called WATER WETTER, that is good for 10-15 degrees with an aluminum radiator, it was just enough in my stang to get it past the terminal thermal point.
 
SkyHiK5 said:
1) I *think* you have a th350. If so you dont have a TV cable you have a kickdown/detent cable. On a th350 ot th400 the cable does no change shift quality. IF you have a 700r4, you have already toasted the tranny if the TV isnt hooked up.

2) through all these changes have you swapped the TC at all? If you re still on the same TC that was in when you toasted the old tranny, there is a good chance you have loaded it with friction material and its a giant power sponge right now.

3) On the overheating issues I would look into timing, and also how does the coolant look? IIRC you pulled this motor and ran it and it hasnt been gone through, it is possible to have a cooling passage plugged. If the coolant turns rusty real quick you may have a strong indication there. Redline makes a product called WATER WETTER, that is good for 10-15 degrees with an aluminum radiator, it was just enough in my stang to get it past the terminal thermal point.
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Yea its a th350 sorry shoulda said that

I did swap the TC this is the TC that came with the tranny rebuild, it was setup for a 2wd C10 behind a 350

The coolant is clean, when i first got the engine running a while back i flushed the crap outta it, did get rust, but got it clean haven't had any dirty fluid since. I'm getting some good responses on the timing issue on the new caddy forum i just posted up, unfortunately I don't understand half of what they're telling me, lol, gotta go figure it out.
 
im not talking about it slipping im talking about the transmission having trash in the valve body if there is trash in it it wouldnt let fluid pass as needed to get power out of the out put shaft that you need for it to pull when you get on the gas which would burn the tranny up
 
chris baldwin said:
im not talking about it slipping im talking about the transmission having trash in the valve body if there is trash in it it wouldnt let fluid pass as needed to get power out of the out put shaft that you need for it to pull when you get on the gas which would burn the tranny up
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well i guess i'll look when I take it apart for the shift it yourself kit, any particular place to look or should i spray the crap outta it with brake fliud or something when i get it apart?

Thanks man :driver:
 
btw i got a timing recommendation of 12 to 15* advance at idle, mid 30's overall timing at about 3grand from the caddy experts

also got told that with the size radiator i have i am having problems with either timing, lean fuel, or leaking head gasket cause "half that radiator should be able to cool that engine sideways" as I was told, lol
 
the tranny issue.... I can't offer any words of wisdom other that what has already been said....


About the not wanting to rev under load/no power under load.....that sounds like its going into the same problem as over heating.
If the carb is not tuned correctly, then the engine may idle fine, and may run great under no/light load, but under load there is a completely different vacuum signal in the carb. The no power/not wanting to rev sounds like a carb tuning/ ign timing problem. The engine should run the best under a large load if the carb is tuned correctly, and idle fine. If you are trying to tune for the idle, and tune for no/light load response, you are working backwards.

So, first, I would get the timing somewhere close to where it should be. second, I would talk to someone at either a good caddy tuning place, or a good carb tuning place and tell them all the details about your engine and your carb, and let them tell you a good starting point for jetting, idle, air bleed sizing.

A vacuum gauge is one of the best tools for tuning a carb.
 
Mac5005 said:
the tranny issue.... I can't offer any words of wisdom other that what has already been said....
About the not wanting to rev under load/no power under load.....that sounds like its going into the same problem as over heating.
If the carb is not tuned correctly, then the engine may idle fine, and may run great under no/light load, but under load there is a completely different vacuum signal in the carb. The no power/not wanting to rev sounds like a carb tuning/ ign timing problem. The engine should run the best under a large load if the carb is tuned correctly, and idle fine. If you are trying to tune for the idle, and tune for no/light load response, you are working backwards.
So, first, I would get the timing somewhere close to where it should be. second, I would talk to someone at either a good caddy tuning place, or a good carb tuning place and tell them all the details about your engine and your carb, and let them tell you a good starting point for jetting, idle, air bleed sizing.
A vacuum gauge is one of the best tools for tuning a carb.
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Really?? I would be sooooo happy if i didn't have to take the drivetrain out again for the 6th time to put in another TC :handed:

I'll get the timing in and get a vacuum gauge to get the carb tuned into the best possible vacuum, that would be so awesome if it fixed the no power under load issue :driver:
 
the not wanting to rev, in combination with the overheating sounds like a tuning issue, if it is happening under load. the tuning being off can make a huge difference, a difference that would only present itself during load and heavy throttle, not at idle or light load.

Although, to be safe... If you arent sure that the tranny is good and clean on the inside, including the TC, I would take the time to get that cleaned up. I would pull the filter in the tranny, see what it looks like, dirty/clogged, or clean fresh, and if it looks good, and there doesnt look like wet newspaper in the bottom of the pan, then id work on the tuning/timing.

Your carb... you said its a 770 truck avenger? Mech/electric choke? mech/vacuum secondaries? Do you know what jets are in it?
 
Mac5005 said:
the not wanting to rev, in combination with the overheating sounds like a tuning issue, if it is happening under load. the tuning being off can make a huge difference, a difference that would only present itself during load and heavy throttle, not at idle or light load.
Although, to be safe... If you arent sure that the tranny is good and clean on the inside, including the TC, I would take the time to get that cleaned up. I would pull the filter in the tranny, see what it looks like, dirty/clogged, or clean fresh, and if it looks good, and there doesnt look like wet newspaper in the bottom of the pan, then id work on the tuning/timing.
Your carb... you said its a 770 truck avenger? Mech/electric choke? mech/vacuum secondaries? Do you know what jets are in it?
Click to expand...

Well i just went throu the tranny myself when i swapped the 2wd tailshaft out for the 4wd one, it has all new clutches and whatnot, it was rebuilt by a shop in troutman which is just north of here, but like I said I'm about to have the bottom end of it apart again to in stall the shift it yourself kit so I'll def make sure she's as clean as possible, pan and filter were clean b4, i'll be able to check again.

Yea 770cfm truck avenger, Elec choke, kinda forgot but i havnt adjusted it either :shaking: IDK bout the secondaries, whatever is stock in the truck avengers, no idea on the jets. Unfortunatly i bought it slightly used so I don't have the box/paper work it came with, I'll see if i can find it on there website.

I mean it runs good now, no stalling, stuttering, popping, etc, just brings the suck under load bad.
 
iirc,there is a small freeze plug under the t-stat on the cad motors,if this freeze plug is not there it will run hotter than it should,check that and let us know
 
GubNi said:
Your electric fan may not be pushing enough CFM as most do less than a mechanical fan.
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Yea i don't think it is either, problem is there seriously isnt any room left for me to squeeze in a fan between the motor and radiator . . .

tusk762 said:
iirc,there is a small freeze plug under the t-stat on the cad motors,if this freeze plug is not there it will run hotter than it should,check that and let us know
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Yea I read about that the other day on the caddy forum, I'll be plugging that shortly.
 
Is this the motor that you weren't sure about the timing pointer being correct on? Have you checked to make sure it's correct?

Fwiw, I'll be in south charlotte the end of this week and most of next week working on my truck. I've got a vac gauge/timing light/over 100 holley jets/holley books and other parts as well as a wbo2 meter (that can read trans temp too) that you can use. It sucks to keep redoing things only to have them fawk up again...
 
braxton357 said:
Is this the motor that you weren't sure about the timing pointer being correct on? Have you checked to make sure it's correct?

Fwiw, I'll be in south charlotte the end of this week and most of next week working on my truck. I've got a vac gauge/timing light/over 100 holley jets/holley books and other parts as well as a wbo2 meter (that can read trans temp too) that you can use. It sucks to keep redoing things only to have them fawk up again...
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nah that was my bro's ford 400, my motor is all stock untouched, well, bottom end is, including the timing cover/mark.

I appreciate it, I'm actualy way north of charlotte in Mooresville, its near Statesville, but I mean I have a timing light, figured id just go buy a vacuum guage need it anyway. I got ahold of a truck avenger setup book, I don't really know anything about jets but I havn't even had the chance to tune it yet, I'm switching to AV gas 100LL so i need to go buy some of it b4 i tune first and I have no $$ to buy 34 gallons worth of $5.50 gas at the moment :handed:

I'm scrapping a bunch of stuff tommorow thou so that'll be some cash . . . we'll see i don't know if im gonna spend it on the gas yet thou
 
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