using overdrive w/ 4l60e

Ricky B

Ricky B

Wiiide Open
Joined
Mar 20, 2005
Location
LKN - Tha Dirty Mo (Mooresville, NC)
Hey, I know your not supposed to use the overdrive in a 4l60e when your towing (I don't) but is that due to the lack of power of the motor and it having to shift in and out of it constantly to go up hills? Or just the tranny bringing the suck? Reason I ask is because I'm about to start putting my Z71's motor back together and supposedly I'm gonna be making around 400hp (at least thats what the dudes with camero's that did what I'm doing said they were getting) is that enough power to use the 4l60e in overdrive while towing? Or am I still screwed? :shaking:
 
Hijack mode = on

can the ECM that controls the 4l60e control the 4l80E?
I am thinking about swapping in a newer 6.5 diesel and I currently have a factury reman 4l60E in my J10 and I do not want to change it out.

Hijack mode =off
 
I wish it was as easy as just swappin an 80 in, its not, i even bought one last year in an attempt to make it work, the only way you can make the swap work is if your running a 97+ ecm, even then its expensive to do, they have standalone aftermarket computers for the 80 as well but they are over a grand, so pretty much if you wanna swap one in your either gonna drop alot of $$ or be out of luck
 
the 4l80e has two output sensors that the 4l60e (only has one)ecm will not control. you need the ecm and harness for the 4l80e to make the conversion. I've been researching this one myself.
 
The standalone 4l80e computers have drop a bit. 500-600 and dropping as more come out.. There is also a new method of controlling it by using a vacuum modulator that you install into the VB and route a hose to your system. That adjusts line pressure, you still need a method of shifting it or use a manual VB.

93+ used PCMs to shift the 4l80e, there were some magical vans/trucks that had diesels in 93-95 that had a more/less stand along PCM to control the tranny. Older TBI can NOT be made to shift the trannys, the ECMs just arn't fast enough.

700r4/4l60 isn't the same as 4l60e (e= electric shifted)

For a simpler (relative) swap look for a 94/95 truck most of those PCMs can handle the electric tranny shifting, and can be configured/set to shift either tranny.

As far as the differences, search google... but to summarize, 4l60/4l60e = all primary shifts are done via BANDs
th400/4l80e= all primary shifts done via clutch packs.

Plus the 4l80 is just plain bigger...The stock ratings should be enough to tell you to build the tranny properly or upgrade it.. that said you can beef a 700r4/4l60e to hold up to towing. Either way put a shift kit in. Huge improvements in both trannys..

After dealing with my tranny problems last year I feel like I know more about the 4l80e than I ever cared to....

and to add... GM really did a decent job with the 4l80e. While its got a few areas a shift kit addresses, for the most part is solid. The PCM really is what makes the tranny shine. It uses the input and output speed sensors (and other engine sensors) to determine whats going on, and can tell if its slipping or not based on how long a shift took to make, or if (for example) in OD and the in/out ratio (stock=.75) is NOT that it determines slipping is happening etc..

Latter models (not sure what years) had more adaptive features added, to actually make line pressure corrections to compensate for wear etc.. The 2003+ had tow haul modes which use more line pressure, pull some power during shifts, allow for 2nd gear lockup at times etc.. Truly a nice tranny IMHO.. (That said it does have limits as does any tranny)
 
yager said:
For a simpler (relative) swap look for a 94/95 truck most of those PCMs can handle the electric tranny shifting, and can be configured/set to shift either tranny.
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From what I saw back when I was researching it you had to have a vortec style motor(96+) to be able to adapt your wiring harness to the 4l80e . . . . and still after you had to get the ecm reprogrammed, what did you find as far as adapting the wiring harness and the ecm for 94/95's?
 
Do more research :D

Spend no less than 2 weeks reading on thirdgen.ord and fullsize chevytrucks.com reading.

4l80e came stock 92/93 up.. If it was an original 4L80e truck your all set, if not you can hack the harness from one and splice it in. For those years if it wasn't a 4l80e they usually put in a slower ECM w/ the 700r4.. (not always) It is very possible to simply modify/repin your harness to attach a stock 4l80e PCM, or remap them in the chip.

ECM = (C3) motorla 6800 1Mhz ish clock speed, 160 baud aldl streem, 4k prom chips. most older TBI stuff, im running 8746 in my jeep for my TBI swap. Simple to tweak/mod. good enough..
PCM = (P4) 68HC processors 2Mhz+ 8192 aldl stream my P/u has a 7427

The short answer is you will need to either spend $$ on a kit or dive into it. There is a good size learning curve. And add the word custom and its harder or more $$..

here .02 google search
http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/tbi/398880-p4-427-swap-list.html

many 'other' cars had PCMs for various reasons, turbo, MAF, etc..

later cars /trucks all used many other computers, than can possibly be made to work/swap, just do your homework, or buy everything from the same truck and just plug it all in..
 
I have a built 4l60e w/ a modified transgo shift kit by these guys http://700r4l60e.com/store/product.php?productid=262&cat=28&page=1

they have lots of info and upgrades if you'd rather go that route. Mine is a Z28, LT1 making 410 ft-lbs at the wheels and has held up fine for about 22k miles so far. Albeit a different animal in a large truck, especially while towing. A built 4l60e + big cooler = the win.

That being said, the 4l80e in my 03 2500hd (60k miles) has never missed a beat either, even w/ 18k lb gross from time to time.
 
I know a guy locally running a 4l80 behind a 500 caddy and just went manual vb on the tranny.

Im not sure how/why/how much, just I have rode with him and it works fine just gotta manually stir it, no clutch to fool with...kinda the best of both worlds if you ask me.

Again I HAVE NO IDEA what he did/had to do to make it all purr... may not be worth the effort may be cheap as hell YMMV
 
I'll add this much from experience. I tow with a mildly modified 95 Chevy 1500 w/ the TBI 350 and 4L60e. Add a second tranny cooler. Also B&M makes an electronic shift controller for the 4L60e and it really shortens and improves the shift. It also helps keep tranny temps down due to less slippage. I'm anxious to see how long a 4L60e will hold up to 400 horses. They're not know to be the best at handling power. My truck sucks the gas while towing since I'm in third the whole time but I can run 70+ no problem with a trailer and my XJ. All I have performance wise is a spacer, chip, intake and straight pipes. Oh i forgot the last mod - a heavy right foot!
 
TH-400
problem solved!
The last super chevy i got they modified a 60 and claim it will hold lots of torque might wanna check it out.
 
TH-400
problem solved!
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Yea but then I lose the whole point of having overdrive in the first place . . .

I'll add this much from experience. I tow with a mildly modified 95 Chevy 1500 w/ the TBI 350 and 4L60e. Add a second tranny cooler. Also B&M makes an electronic shift controller for the 4L60e and it really shortens and improves the shift. It also helps keep tranny temps down due to less slippage. I'm anxious to see how long a 4L60e will hold up to 400 horses. They're not know to be the best at handling power. My truck sucks the gas while towing since I'm in third the whole time but I can run 70+ no problem with a trailer and my XJ. All I have performance wise is a spacer, chip, intake and straight pipes. Oh i forgot the last mod - a heavy right foot!
Click to expand...

Yea I mean i tow in third and dont have a problem running 70 mph just dont like watchin the gas gauge fall . . . I do have the B&M shift thing which I am kinda not liking now because i think it fried my soliniods . . . .

I know a guy locally running a 4l80 behind a 500 caddy and just went manual vb on the tranny.

Im not sure how/why/how much, just I have rode with him and it works fine just gotta manually stir it, no clutch to fool with...kinda the best of both worlds if you ask me.

Again I HAVE NO IDEA what he did/had to do to make it all purr... may not be worth the effort may be cheap as hell YMMV
Click to expand...

While it is nice not to have to shift at the same time if I could save myself a grand or so in electrical crap I would shift her all day long if need be



I like how no one answered my original question . . . what kills the 60 if you try and tow with it in overdrive, it having to shift in and out going up hills? Or just it not being able to drive in overdrive due to lack of balls? :shaking:
 
Lower RPM = lower line pressure, less clamping force for clutch packs and torque converter clutch
O/D = not 1:1, meaning you're spinning planetaries under a high amount of load.

So 400HP from a TBI 350, and 450hp on a propane Caddy motor that turns 4500rpm max, huh?
 
Rich said:
Lower RPM = lower line pressure, less clamping force for clutch packs and torque converter clutch
O/D = not 1:1, meaning you're spinning planetaries under a high amount of load.

So 400HP from a TBI 350, and 450hp on a propane Caddy motor that turns 4500rpm max, huh?
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So too much heat then, that what you mean rich?
 
Rich said:
So 400HP from a TBI 350, and 450hp on a propane Caddy motor that turns 4500rpm max, huh?
Click to expand...


Propane???? pane is gay, got a holley 770 truck avenger on the cad 500

TBI isn't stock at all, I'm droppin bout $600 in custom fuel injection parts on top of the parts for the motor which is bout another $800 :driver:





Don't ask me where I get my $$ . . . . the answer might have something to do with fat chicks :( :lol:
 
also another big problem with towing in OD is the converter lockup being turned on and off constantly. Thats actually the biggest source of heat inside the trans

4l60e's from the factory use PWM to control the lockup, most shift kits you would install convert that PWM to a definite on/off which helps ALOT in the long lasting deparment after doing a rebuild

The low line pressure in OD(or in any gear) is also addressed in many shift kits.

But a 4l60e can definatly be built to hold in very well in a heavy duty type towing situation (ive done many) It would be way cheaper and easier to build the 4l60e beefy than to swap to a 4l80e
 
jrraw23 said:
TBI isn't stock at all, I'm droppin bout $600 in custom fuel injection parts on top of the parts for the motor which is bout another $800
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And it's going through what heads and what intake? Which "Camaro guys" were telling you this? CAM? RPM? BHP? Ellis?

I know alot more about SBC's than Cadillac 500's, but I still doubt you're gonna get 450hp from that, either. Takes more than a set of shaved down heads to get there.

Not trying to shit in your cheerios, but your goals sound about 75hp high..
 
Rich said:
And it's going through what heads and what intake? Which "Camaro guys" were telling you this? CAM? RPM? BHP? Ellis?

I know alot more about SBC's than Cadillac 500's, but I still doubt you're gonna get 450hp from that, either. Takes more than a set of shaved down heads to get there.

Not trying to shit in your cheerios, but your goals sound about 75hp high..
Click to expand...


I'm just talkin from what I saw on forums while doin reasearch I realize the numbers are probably overstated by 25-50hp but why would I tell you exactly what I'm gonna do to it? Then I can't catch people off guard when i challange em to drag races . . . . bwahahahaha :driver:
 
In other words, he really has no clue...

BTW not hatin' but if you get 450 RWHP from a caddy 500 I wanna see it....
 
those numbers might make sense if you're talking about gross sitting on an engine dyno with no accessories/exhaust, but certainly not net at the flywheel. not in his wildest dreams at the wheels...
 
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