What Kind Of Welder For Newbie?

MudMan4Life

New Member
Joined
May 21, 2006
Location
Matthews
I'm in the market for a welder & I've never welded before but have some ideas going through my head for projects in the future. I'm pretty much set on a MIG welder as I read that its the best to start with if you've never welded before, do ya'll agree with this? Also what kind of welders did ya'll start out with or that you still use? I'm wanting something that will be good to learn with but also something that I can use for a few years without having to buy something a different welder. The projects that I have in mind are stuff for an atv, maybe a bumper for my Jeep, even a trailer for towing. Any thought/opinions are welcomed, thanks.
 
welder

man, you opened a can of worms.
but for someone that has gone through this delimma, heres my $0.02
You first have to ask yourself 2 questions.
1) do I have 220V power available? or available where I might be welding?
if this is a 'no' then you have limited your options quickly
2) do I buy the most tool that I can afford? if you are going to dink around, then get a dink-around welder. if you want a tool that will last for years, get a solid, name brand welder- if you can swallow the upfront pricing.
my story- I knew how to weld on all different equipment before I struggled on this choice, but settled on a 110v flux core welder because I was in an apartment and needed to weld THERE in the grass behind my unit. did this work, yes. was it strong- sorta. pretty, NO. But it was cheap (Lowes brand flux core $350) and lasted until I bought a house and had more $$$. Plus, at that point I knew that I wanted a 'real' welder and had accumulated enough skill to use a good unit. Now it resides at the family farm fixing a tractor...
I borrowed a Miller MIG model 210 (thanks Mike!) for about a year (he had no 220V as I remember) and it was awesome. But when it left, I opted to only get the 175amp version. During that whole time that I had the 210, I did not use the machine to its capacity. Therefore could not justify the $600 rise in pricetag. So I 'settled' for the $700 175A unit and have not looked back since. Now, I rarely burn more than 1/4" thick plate. So, thats just my opinion.

Dont forget all the extras that add up. helmet, gloves, tank, table....
 
agreed, look for something in the 220V range, if you have it available.


for more bang for the buck, get a Lincoln 225/125 AC/DC stick welder. (around $450 new, at most). Master stick welding and MIG is a breeze.

Stick welding is still difficult even if you know how to MIG...

Knowing how to stick makes learning TIG much easier.

Plus, you can cheaply add a TIG attachment onto it:smokin:

Rob
 
This discussion comes up ever so often. The Lincoln 175 is a good machine. The miller, the Hobart all good choices. I have a friend with a 110V Hobart, it does ok, but he likes my Hobart 175, which is now the 180 I think. OK this kinda depends on if you have an understanding mom, wife, girl friend. You most likely have 220V already, but has that strange dryer thing or oven hooked to it. I do have a friend that does just that. uses the stove plug for his power. not the most convenient, but it works. But as everyone has said, I would still go with the 220V model, which ever you choose.
 
too much welder

---as to the last comment, not so sure about this advice for a beginner/entry level welder. If you need to weld something that is 'life threatening', then dont weld it yourself if you don't feel confident. Hire it out. Tack it up, then get a pro with experience and enough 'juice' to finish weld it. This allows you to buy a quality smaller machine that you can afford for 99.9% of the jobs that you would come across.
 
Chuckman said:
---as to the last comment, not so sure about this advice for a beginner/entry level welder. If you need to weld something that is 'life threatening', then dont weld it yourself if you don't feel confident. Hire it out. Tack it up, then get a pro with experience and enough 'juice' to finish weld it. This allows you to buy a quality smaller machine that you can afford for 99.9% of the jobs that you would come across.
Click to expand...



why buy a cheap welder with the intentions of never mastering it? why not just buy one welder... learn on bumpers, sliders and normal stuff. THEN when you have some skills start having fun with it.
 
rockcity said:
agreed, look for something in the 220V range, if you have it available.
for more bang for the buck, get a Lincoln 225/125 AC/DC stick welder. (around $450 new, at most). Master stick welding and MIG is a breeze.
Stick welding is still difficult even if you know how to MIG...
Knowing how to stick makes learning TIG much easier.
Plus, you can cheaply add a TIG attachment onto it:smokin:
Rob
Click to expand...

I agree with this also.........you can not go wrong learning with a stick welder. It teaches you what the puddle should look like and how to manipulate it. Once you can stick weld you can use any other form of welder fairly easy. Plus the Tig attachment to the stick welder is a VERY nice touch.......:smokin:
 
you'd be hard pressed to go wrong with a stick but it does take some time to learn. if you are gonna get a mig why not get one with gas as they are way better and hold stronger than just a flux core welder if u got the cash that is and if u get one with gas make sure whoever sells it to you schools you on the tank. and either way u go remember to drag with a stick welder and push with a mig... i think?
 
So, are you saying the only one with gas is a mig?
 
How about a stick welder? Do you need gas for that?
 
not been mentioned, but a class at the community college would be very helpful to you. (just noticing your comments and you do seem a bit green about welding) another idea is to hook up with one of the guys on the board and see if they might help you.
 
yea, i was thinkin about takin a class, or have a buddy give me a few pointers
 
Yeah for sure, take some classes. They will teach you all the safety stuff you will need to know, as well as proper mixtures of fuels. I have take a few at the CPCC Harper campus, not too far from Mathews, so far it has been a great learning experience.
 
I was a mentor for a Senior this year. His senior class project was welding. He learned all about PPE and so on. before he ever ever struck an arch. Practiced a lot, made a lot of mistakes, and fixed them. Practiced a lot more, and did a lot better. Final project was one of those pot racks to suspend from the ceiling. made from thin wall square tube, I do believe it would hold the entire refrigerator. point is, he had over 25 hours invested. He was excited everyday with what he accomplished, according to his mom and his teacher. He has basic knowledge of mig welding, and in a pinch I do believe he could make a decent enough weld on something to get himself by, safely.
 
If you are going to learn welding and have the yearning to mess with it the rest of your life, Take this advice to the bank, Get the biggest welder you can afford, Do buisness with a local welding shop, because you will develope a relationship with them that will help you through learning curves and repairs,Also when you need supplies, sometimes they are just a little more pricy but I figure they have to make a living and they do help you trouble shoot from time to time, Lets see a guy @ Lowes do that for you, You are entering one of the most liberating skills for a man, And in 10 years you will wonder how you ever made it without it. Oh and buy the way, when you get some skills get ready for the neighborhood, from lawn chairs to lawnmowers you will be the neighborhood welder...........
 
Thanks for the input. I'll put it to good use.
 
Lot's of good advice here. I'll just chime in with thoughts in random order.
1) Stick is nice in the field because it's more tolerant of wind and can be powered by a few car batteries.
2) Mig is nice because it's easier to learn and it doesn't leave slag behind. Filling a gap with stick *sucks* because you have to constantly hammer it, wire brush it, weld it more, repeat, repeat, repeat. With mig you just add wire, look, add more, etc.
3) Mig is more expensive.
4) Whatever you get, get the best you can afford. For a weekend warrior like us a good welder will last longer than we do. Seriously, you might end up putting it in your will so get one you like.
5) A mig is more expensive than it seems at first. Your $700 welder will quickly need a gas tank, $100 consumable pack, a few rolls of $80 wire, etc.
6) Get a good sized gas tank (60 gallons or larger). You can't get them filled on the weekend and you don't want to run out mid project.
7) Buy the best welding gloves you can find. The $15 lincoln electric gloves at home depot are good.
8) Wear eye protection *all* the time. Everybody fails to wear eye protection during DIY projects sometimes. Does anybody really put them on for hammering a nail? Working with metal is different. Eye protection is serious. It doesn't matter if your grinding, welding, or drilling (yes drilling). I like a full face shield more than safety glasses. Whenever I work with other people they want to borrow the full face shield, especially if they have to work on their back. I always let them, eye protection is important.
9) Have an experience welder around when you learn. I'm new to mig welding but I had tacoma747 around when I did my first project. He could often tell by listening what I needed to do differently.
10) If you start with stick (like I did) you'll find going to mig to be very easy. Even though I use the mig for the bulk of the welding I'm happy to have both because I can bend the stick for hard to reach places and sometimes it's nice to have serious power. (A 220 stick welder can handle very thick metal.)
11) I am currently using my brother's Miller 175. When he wants it back I think I'll buy the same thing.
That's a start. Good luck.
 
once again, go for the stick welder. You can weld well over 1/2" thick metal once you master stick welding. Sure it takes time to learn stick, much, much more than MIG, but it will be much easier to cross over into MIG and TIG later on. Plus, stick welding is stronger :D
Just more bang for the buck. But, if you know you'll never stick weld or TIG weld ever, then go for just the MIG.
Personally, I TIG and stick everything. MIG, well, uh, anyone can MIG, so I try to concentrate on something else when I build things. Sure MIG is faster, but I like the look of the TIG weld and the quality it gives. With the stick, well, thats what I'm good at, so I'm very comftorable with it, verticle, overhead, whatever. So thats what I use on a lot of stuff. Plus, with a nice 7018 rod, its awesome to see a pretty weld layed down knowing it took some skill to get to look like that...
Oh, another thing on the stick welder, its much more versatile. Let me explain...
-TIG attachment is less than $100 (minus bottle), regulator, say $40
-AC/DC+ and DC- Makes it very easy to switch the polarity for use on a wide range of metals and situations (and TIG welding)
-aluminum welding is a snap with the correct rod (assuming you know how to weld aluminum). no special gas, etc. etc.
-cast welding is achievable with nickle or weldmold rods
-there are a huge assortment of welding rods for just as many types of welding, from 1# boxes up to 50# boxes (unlike the expensive/waseful mig wire is when changing spools, and time consuming)
-with the correct attachment, its easy to arc gouge as well, try that with a MIG...
-the same basic Lincoln buzzbox design has been around for over 50 years, not bad. something must be good:D
OK, I'm done now:D
Rob
 
vanguard said:
Everybody fails to wear eye protection during DIY projects sometimes. Does anybody really put them on for hammering a nail?
Click to expand...
I do. I do. Call me weird, but I wear them cutting the grass, hammering a nail, etc. etc. I guess I've been conditioned that way with my years of experience in steel construction. Plus it helps to keep the contacts clean.:D

vanguard said:
I like a full face shield more than safety glasses.
Click to expand...

Wear them under the face shield and you'll notice the difference, especially with dust. Find a good pair that fits great (more than likely you won't find it at Lowes or HD). Try looking at Machine and Weld supply or National welders. We get quite a few from them and they seem to be great glasses and are very affordable. Very comfortable also.



OK, back on topic.
:D


Rob
 
Ok, another question. So what is exactly the differences in TIG, MIG, and stick. How much of a difference is there between them when your welding two pieces of metal together.
 
Jonnyjpr said:
Ok, another question. So what is exactly the differences in TIG, MIG, and stick. How much of a difference is there between them when your welding two pieces of metal together.
Click to expand...


the difference is the process of welding

stick (SMAW), is Shielded Metal Arch Welding. Uses an electrode coated in a flux to shield (insulate) the arch and burns away when welding, creating slag on top of the weld. No gas required, good for flat, verticle, overhead, stainless steel, aluminum, and most all carbon steel.

MIG (Metal Inert Gas) welding uses gasses like argon/co2 etc. for the insulating/shield for the weld. Difficult to use outdoors because wind will blow the gas away, causing very poor weld and burned up tips. Filler metal is fed with the machine through the MIG gun. Wire speeds can be adjusted depending on your application. Believe it or not, flux core wire welding is SMAW welding, not MIG.

TIG (Tungsten Inert Gas) welding uses gas similar to MIG welding for the shiels. however, instead of wire coming out of the handle, there is a piece of tungsten (much higher melting temp than steel) that transferrs the arch. Filler rod is fed in by hand with your hand that isn't holding the TIG torch head. Amps can be adjusted on the machine (scratch start setup) or with the high end welders, a foot pedal. Great quality, great strength, looks awesome, geat versatility, but very slow and difficult to do correctly.

there is much more versatility with the stick and TIG than MIG when joining 2 pieces of metal together. Stick can be adjusted by moving the electrode closer or further away from the base metal and the rate at which you feed the electrode can be controlled by the welder. TIG can be controlled much more. Filler rod can be added whenever needed, Amps can be adjusted with the foot pedal, and you can actually pre-heat with the TIG on critical welds. MIG welding is basically point and go. Can't adjust the filler on the fly, can't adjust the amps on the fly, just the movement...

hope this helps.

Rob
 
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