What transmission?

Baker

Baker

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 25, 2010
Location
Suffolk, VA
What factory 4 speed came in a jeep cj that bolts right to a dana 20 transfer case? I am buying one from a friend but he's unsure what model it is. I should be able to pull some numbers off it later today
 
T18 would be the one you want. I don't believe any other factory 4 speeds were made during the dana 20 TC days. I'm sure someone will correct me if that's not right. Might want to verify the 1st gear ratio too, I think some were 4:1 and some 6.32:1. not sure what you are after but something to look out for I guess.
 
benmack1 said:
T18 would be the one you want. I don't believe any other factory 4 speeds were made during the dana 20 TC days. I'm sure someone will correct me if that's not right. Might want to verify the 1st gear ratio too, I think some were 4:1 and some 6.32:1. not sure what you are after but something to look out for I guess.
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Wasn't there a long and short input version of those? The short one being used in CJ's and the long in FSJ's.
 
an original jeep CJ T18 will have a different trans to bell housing bolt pattern than a Ford T18. The holes are closer on one side on the CJ version and the Ford are symmetric I think. I thought the CJ T18 used a stud on one hole rather than threaded holes on all 4 like the ford does. You will need the right bell housing for that or have to modify one for that bolt pattern. Also, depending on what you are swapping it into, it may not have the right bell housing for the input shaft length. The intermediate CJ's (72-75) with the T14 or T15 transmissions have a longer input shaft length and correspondingly long bell housing than what the T18 will need (I think). Later CJ's with a T150 or T176 will have the right bell for a ford pattern but you said you have a dana 20 so I assume you don't have a later model CJ. Several little details on this swap that can be pricey things to adjust for.

The biggie is to make sure it's not just a Ford pick-up T18 (that CJ bell to trans bolt pattern is the easiest clue to tell you have a bonafide jeep CJ transmission). If it has the Dana 20 hanging in the ass of it, you're good to go but the expensive part of the swap is the adapter/spacer plate and different output shaft to swap in a ford T18 to a dana 20. Like a $500 difference to do that so you want to be certain it's a CJ transmission or has been adapted already. The FSJ has a much longer input shaft but the backside is correct for a dana 20 (again, make sure you have the plate/spacer) and it's truly a FSJ T18. Changing the input shaft is much cheaper and simpler than adapting the output. There is some discussion that the 4:1 ratio variety is hard to find the short input but I've seen them for sale on the web with a simple google search so I don't think it's that hard to find. Also, make sure it's not a T176 which was mated to the dana 300 which won't work as a bolt in for a dana 20. Hopefully what you are buying is in a CJ or been in one and then you are all set. I wish I could find one set up to bolt in!!

I couldn't tell from your post if it is in a CJ or not or you were just trying to tell if it was a T18. If it's sitting in a CJ right now, of course I just wasted alot of typing :D
 
Ok so the tranny is a t178a I guess it originally came out of a fsj? Will the input shaft work with the same bell housing from a factory 3 speed t150? That's what I have but I tore up the 3 speed (little too much skinny pedal ) and he's got this 4 speed just sitting around.
 
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Looks like a t176 to me. Those were originally mated to a Dana 300 I think. Do your homework on the requirements to adapt.to your TC could get pricey for a meh tranny as well as it could get to be a long set up if u have a cj5. Better to find a t18 imo if you are going to all this trouble.
 
I believe the case is cast. He says it bolts right to the d20 tc. Only reason I'm asking is because this would be a better option than rebuilding mine and I will get an extra gear. But if it's not going to work than I will end up looking for a t18 or building mine.
 
I'm not up to speed with the dana20 transfer case, but that for sure is not a dana300 transfer case bolt pattern.
 
I am NOT an expert so take this with that in mind. The reason it doesn't look like a dana 300 bolt pattern is because as it sits now it won't bolt to any TC. It's missing some stuff on the ass end. It needs the right adapter on the output side. That output bearing is sitting there in front of god and everyone right now. Should be a 2-3 inch adapter on there. Here is a pic of one that has the right adapter on the ass end for the Dana 300. The one in the OP posted pictures of has the adapter missing.

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More importantly and what I was trying to allude to is that thing isn't set up for a dana 20 either. My guess (again cross check me on this) is you would need to put a new output shaft and have an adapters plate for the back end to make it mate to a dana 20. I don't think these were factory offered for the T176 so you're probably going to have to buy a new one from advance or novak etc. Could be wrong so go to novak or advance adapters to read up on that. If it came from a FSJ, I am not understanding it, doesn't look right to me for that application. The input seems right for a later model CJ5 or 7 that had a dana300. The FSJ's were longer to move it back a bit. Not many folks putting the money into it to adapt a T176 to the older dana 20 when you can do it for the same cost and use a T18.

I checked novak and that casting number on your cover is right for a T176. Not sure what a T178a should have on it. That was apparently the version for a FSJ but sure doesn't look like one to me.
 
^^^what he said. Unless the seller more parts to go with it, I would avoid that one. As it sits, it will require purchasing adapters to do anything with it. If you are going to spend that kind of money, you might as well upgrade to a stronger/lower geared transmisssion.
 
Thanks guys. The d20 doesn't require an adapter though at least not with a t150 output shaft goes into case and yoke gets bolted to it after it slides into the case
 
Yes, exactly the T150 was factory married to the dana 20 and made for that purpose, the T176 was factory married (with adapter) to the dana 300 is my understanding. I think if you look you will see the back of those two tranny cases are quite different and thus where you are going to get screwed. I think guys do the T150/d20 to T176/D300 swap rather than just the trans for these situations if it doesn't get to be too long in length. I don't think those two transmissions are bolt in interchangeable is my point. Maybe I'm wrong???
 
Gotcha
 
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Late chiming in here but thought I'd throw in my .02. T18 is def the way to go if you want to keep your dana 20 case. I'm no expert here but the dana 20 requires a gear input instead of a shaft (as the trans in pics above has). It is not a sealed case like the 300. The trans has a gear bolted onto the output shaft that fits inside the case of the dana 20 as the "input". You have a gasket between the trans and transfer to seal the oil into the transfer case. The T150 has a gear on the output shaft for this purpose. Any T18 that will work with the dana 20 must have an adapter plate and correct gear on the output for the dana 20. The adapter plate actually has the rear seal for the trans in it and the trans mount for this config.
There are 2 gear ratios of T18 that came in a cj. one being from early 70's (4.1to1 first) and one from late 70's I think 78 and 79(6.32to1 first). These are not easy to find and usually pricey when you do find them. And the 4.1 is way less desirable than the 6.32. There might even be a difference of input shaft length's but not sure. There are a couple of ways to tell these 2 apart.

Let me say that the T18 is longer than the T150. With the adapter included, you will add 3+ inches to your driveline length. Probably need new drive shafts, may need to lengthen shifter linkage for dana 20 (haven't gotten that far yet).

Cheapest way for a T18 for a CJ is from a FSJ of the late 70's. This will be 6.32 first and have correct adapter and gear for dana 20. BUT, as mentioned the input is way to long, you must swap the input for a shorter one. There are places to buy a "kit" to perform this swap. It has new shaft, bearing retainer, etc. to change the input shaft. I am doing one of these swaps now. My kit came from Parts Mike. If I choose to, I could swap the input without completely tearing the trans down. Don't get me wrong, it's still a job that some don't need to tackle, but is really not that hard ( of course mine is in pieces now LOL). I'm rebuilding and replacing some gears while in there. I haven' t looked into the shifter linkage for the dana 20 yet but I have the old from my Cj and the other from a J-20. Looks pretty simple from what I remember to relocate the shifter if needed. And from what I remember reading, the T150 bellhousing will work. One bolt turned backwards or something. Well I used it that way for some "mock up" years ago. This is my 13 year cj project.

Best case scenario is what I found. A entire running J-20 longbed truck with 77,000 miles for 800 bucks. It had a 360, T18, dana 20 and 8 lug 44 front and FF60 rear. I took the entire drivetrain and some other parts and scraped the rest for some coin back in my pocket. I will shorten the input on T18 and I assume cut down the linkage for dana 20 to fit the Cj.

Hope my late night ramblings might help somebody....if not....at least some cheap entertainment
 
Yeah you are correct sir. I ended up just deciding to rebuild the t150. I had a donor available that just needed bearings and synchros so I went that route. I put it all back together yesterday and should be able to get it back in my CJ tomorrow.

How much gear oil does the t150 take and how much does the 20 take? This is my first time having to anything with this drive train combo
 
Googled it......2.8 pints in trans and 2.75 pints for transfer. This is close I'm sure. Couldn't find this in Chiltons manual.
 
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The T150 is a pretty tough little trans just not enough gear for serious offroading. I have broken pretty much all parts of a "stock" jeep drivetrain, but still running the same T150 I rebuilt about 15 years ago. I've broke driveshafts, axle shafts, broke front dana 30 diff in half (twice) and all behind the same T150 trans. (Way too much skinny pedal)
Everything is a system, if you change to lower geared trans, you put more torque on everything behind it. Axleshafts in a dana 30 front axle will be asked to handle a lot more than from stock with 3 speed. Throw on larger tires and you putting the axle shafts in a situation that they might let you down. Upgrades lead to upgrades! You will always find the weak link with the skinny pedal.

Glad your getting back on the trail/road!
 
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tknopp said:
Yep. 2 versions of the T18 out there. Sometimes referred to as T18a and T18b.
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Ooooooo, there's a lot more versions of the T-18 out there than the close and wide range T-18 found in Jeeps. Ford used it and there's several versions. Not to mention the one out of Scouts.

You also want to look for the adapter plate on the back of the T18 to bolts it to the D20. Without that, you'll spend a lot more money on just the adapter.
 
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