Looking for some advice for "Lease On" Power only Hotshot

[jeepinmatt]

None, if by some chance in the future I get on the road pulling a load of new trucks I'll tag this. But what's your point? Are you saying that my 03 isn't as capable and reliable?

Do you not drive a deleted 6.7?

Your 03 may be capable, and it probably is reliable, as is a Ford 300i6 or a 1985 Honda Accord, and there's nothing wrong with that.

He is insinuating that you’re just a smidge off that the only difference between your truck and a newer one is tires, springs and stickers.

What's the smidge?

A lot of little and medium things that add up to make a big difference. I am by no means an "expert" or professional truck driver or anything like that. But I've driven a handful of different trucks and pulled a variety of loads, and have more experience than your average Joe.

I used to occasionally pull a 9k pound dozer with an 86 F350 with 6.9 idi and it was capable of (very slowly) making it move. Didn't stop for shit and you were on the edge of your seat during the whole adventure (and it was always an adventure because something always had an issue).

Then I jumped up to a tuned 03 Duramax. My God, that truck would fly! Pulled 7-12k loads pretty well, stopped ok, I was happy with it.

Then I got an 08 Ford with the 6.4. The power was out of this world, and the truck felt so planted and controlled when towing 10k plus. Fuel mileage sucked (even deleted), but I thought everything else about that truck was almost unbeatable.

Then I got a 2011 6.7 Ford with the 6 speed. It did everything the 08 did, but better, and with waaaay better fuel mileage (both stock and deleted) and the 6 speeds truly made the truck a whole world better, along with a hundred little things they improved.

I only had that truck 6 months or so until I found a 2012 6.7 Ford I wanted more. On paper the 2011 and 2012 are the same, but I think they ironed out some first model year bugs and the 2012 Ford was all around the best truck I ever owned. I put 4k pounds in the back of it, regularly towed 10-15k pounds, and just generally used the hell out of it. One time I towed 21k pounds behind it because I thought the 200 retaining wall blocks on my trailer were 50lbs each but it turns out they were 90 lbs each, and even with 3.55 gears it wasn't a problem and pulled like a champ. I also left it all stock because the power and reliability gave me no reason to change it.

As my equipment portfolio continued to grow, I bought a better trailer with 17.5" wheels and tires, which allowed me to push on up to loads regularly in the 15-20k pound range, which was just too much for a single rear wheel truck. I also wanted to add a flatbed dump to my arsenal, and the payload capacity of an F350/3500 series truck was limited to about 5k pounds. By the time you put a steel flatbed and 1000 pounds of tools/gear/junk in a truck, your real payload is closer to 3000 pounds. The F450-550 and 4500-5500 series trucks have payload capacities up to about 11k pounds and GCWR of nearly 40k pounds, so it would allow me to pull my junk with 2k pounds of tongue weight, and have 3-4 tons of stuff in the bed. I figured if I'm going to deal with the bulkiness of dual wheels and an 8ft bed anyway, I might as well make it a 9ft bed and have a truck that will do anything I need.

I bought my 2017 Ram 5500 last November and it's not even fair to compare it to the 2012 F250. There are things I like and things I dislike, but its such an ox and pulls and controls a 15-20k pound load like the F250 did a 10k load. It rides exceptionally well for a truck with a 5.5 ton payload capacity, and even though it's a whole other class of truck, you can also tell it is another generation more advanced in almost every department. Plus it has a heated steering wheel and cooled seats

My point with all of those words is that for the past 20 years (or 30, or maybe even 40, or 100), every new generation of truck has taken a bunch of small incremental improvements and turned them into a package that is leaps and bounds better than the previous generation. A 6.9 IDI in 1986 had 170hp and 318ftlbs, and the standard 03 Cummins had nearly double that at 305/555, and the 2023 Duramax will have nearly double that at 505hp and 1085ftlbs, with every option imaginable, a great ride, good fuel mileage, and a factory warranty. On paper, or with an empty truck driving around, the differences are hard to comprehend, but throw a load behind them, and the newer generation will shine every time. Every single component is bigger, beefier, and better designed to handle the increased torque, payload, and towing capacity. And all of the big 3 are darn good at making them these days because the competition has forced them to be (and the profit margins are huge)!

 

[jeepinmatt]

With all that I have done on air and fuel I'm expected to be making 550/900

Man if you want to use your truck reliably day in and day out, step 1 is to get back to stock power levels, or maybe a hair above. Customers don't care how fast you were going up Fancy Gap before the boost hose blew.

 

[Darkbloodmon]

Your 03 may be capable, and it probably is reliable, as is a Ford 300i6 or a 1985 Honda Accord, and there's nothing wrong with that.




A lot of little and medium things that add up to make a big difference. I am by no means an "expert" or professional truck driver or anything like that. But I've driven a handful of different trucks and pulled a variety of loads, and have more experience than your average Joe.

I used to occasionally pull a 9k pound dozer with an 86 F350 with 6.9 idi and it was capable of (very slowly) making it move. Didn't stop for shit and you were on the edge of your seat during the whole adventure (and it was always an adventure because something always had an issue).

Then I jumped up to a tuned 03 Duramax. My God, that truck would fly! Pulled 7-12k loads pretty well, stopped ok, I was happy with it.

Then I got an 08 Ford with the 6.4. The power was out of this world, and the truck felt so planted and controlled when towing 10k plus. Fuel mileage sucked (even deleted), but I thought everything else about that truck was almost unbeatable.

Then I got a 2011 6.7 Ford with the 6 speed. It did everything the 08 did, but better, and with waaaay better fuel mileage (both stock and deleted) and the 6 speeds truly made the truck a whole world better, along with a hundred little things they improved.

I only had that truck 6 months or so until I found a 2012 6.7 Ford I wanted more. On paper the 2011 and 2012 are the same, but I think they ironed out some first model year bugs and the 2012 Ford was all around the best truck I ever owned. I put 4k pounds in the back of it, regularly towed 10-15k pounds, and just generally used the hell out of it. One time I towed 21k pounds behind it because I thought the 200 retaining wall blocks on my trailer were 50lbs each but it turns out they were 90 lbs each, and even with 3.55 gears it wasn't a problem and pulled like a champ. I also left it all stock because the power and reliability gave me no reason to change it.

As my equipment portfolio continued to grow, I bought a better trailer with 17.5" wheels and tires, which allowed me to push on up to loads regularly in the 15-20k pound range, which was just too much for a single rear wheel truck. I also wanted to add a flatbed dump to my arsenal, and the payload capacity of an F350/3500 series truck was limited to about 5k pounds. By the time you put a steel flatbed and 1000 pounds of tools/gear/junk in a truck, your real payload is closer to 3000 pounds. The F450-550 and 4500-5500 series trucks have payload capacities up to about 11k pounds and GCWR of nearly 40k pounds, so it would allow me to pull my junk with 2k pounds of tongue weight, and have 3-4 tons of stuff in the bed. I figured if I'm going to deal with the bulkiness of dual wheels and an 8ft bed anyway, I might as well make it a 9ft bed and have a truck that will do anything I need.

I bought my 2017 Ram 5500 last November and it's not even fair to compare it to the 2012 F250. There are things I like and things I dislike, but its such an ox and pulls and controls a 15-20k pound load like the F250 did a 10k load. It rides exceptionally well for a truck with a 5.5 ton payload capacity, and even though it's a whole other class of truck, you can also tell it is another generation more advanced in almost every department. Plus it has a heated steering wheel and cooled seats

My point with all of those words is that for the past 20 years (or 30, or maybe even 40, or 100), every new generation of truck has taken a bunch of small incremental improvements and turned them into a package that is leaps and bounds better than the previous generation. A 6.9 IDI in 1986 had 170hp and 318ftlbs, and the standard 03 Cummins had nearly double that at 305/555, and the 2023 Duramax will have nearly double that at 505hp and 1085ftlbs, with every option imaginable, a great ride, good fuel mileage, and a factory warranty. On paper, or with an empty truck driving around, the differences are hard to comprehend, but throw a load behind them, and the newer generation will shine every time. Every single component is bigger, beefier, and better designed to handle the increased torque, payload, and towing capacity. And all of the big 3 are darn good at making them these days because the competition has forced them to be (and the profit margins are huge)!

I get the steady march of technological innovation, but im not comparing my truck to anything else and wanting more. I've built it better than it came from the factory and im looking to pull. Its more than capable, and not outclassed. I'm a competition clutch away from entry level pro stock in the NTPA. I don't drive a 6" lifted 24" wide candy shop colored Instagram truck. I'm built to move.

 

[Darkbloodmon]

Man if you want to use your truck reliably day in and day out, step 1 is to get back to stock power levels, or maybe a hair above. Customers don't care how fast you were going up Fancy Gap before the boost hose blew.

I'm more capable to handle that power level reliably to say the least. I only cruise at 65.

 

[WARRIORWELDING]

I have a very good friend who did the camper thing for a few years. If you like wearing out your stuff and having very few back hauls go for it. And don't forget every pickup is in up in camper land where they are built. Dead head up, pick up and deliver all over the East coast and regularly no load back? Yeah great way to make money and spend it faster. Do what he did. Get in someone else's truck, have some health insurance that the company helps pay for and hold that steering wheel.



In all seriousness I can get you in touch with him if you need more details.

 

[StretchASU]

Can someone change the name of this thread from “Looking for advice…” to “Hotshotting with an almost NTPA truck”?

 

[Ron]

I get the steady march of technological innovation, but im not comparing my truck to anything else and wanting more. I've built it better than it came from the factory and im looking to pull. Its more than capable, and not outclassed. I'm a competition clutch away from entry level pro stock in the NTPA. I don't drive a 6" lifted 24" wide candy shop colored Instagram truck. I'm built to move.

And power doesn’t really matter much when it comes to hotshotting.
It’s all the other stuff.
You haven’t upgraded the suspension significantly .

I’m not trying to talk you out of it. But when you start talking doing it to make actual money you are talking about spending a ton of time behind the wheel. All that stuff adds up.

Those class 8 trucks you mentioned. There is a reason folks don’t use them for the market you are targeting. What makes them last also makes them more expensive to operate.

 

[jeepinmatt]

I get the steady march of technological innovation, but im not comparing my truck to anything else and wanting more. I've built it better than it came from the factory and im looking to pull. Its more than capable, and not outclassed. I'm a competition clutch away from entry level pro stock in the NTPA. I don't drive a 6" lifted 24" wide candy shop colored Instagram truck. I'm built to move.

I'm more capable to handle that power level reliably to say the least. I only cruise at 65.

In general you asked about driving for a living pulling with a truck and said yours was the most powerfulest and was essentially a 3500. I'm just trying to add some perspective to help you understand why people use newer trucks and there is a lot more to it than 550hp and 900ftlbs and a competition clutch. Let me be clear, I'm not dissing on your truck. I think that generation of Dodge is awesome. It wasn't that long ago that I was a college kid getting an engineering degree from UNCC who's first order of business upon graduation was to buy an 07 Dodge 2500 6MT CCSB 4x4 5.9 Cummins in Patriot Blue with a tan interior from Steve White motors in Hickory (and if you search well, there 's probably even a thread on here about it ). Your truck is probably one of, if not THE, best 03 Dodge 2500 6MT CCSB 4x4's around. If it were a CCLB it would certainly be better than @shawn's, but you have to understand that because it's a short bed, you can't even carry plywood, so it's not a real truck.

 

[Jody Treadway]

It's apparent you are excited about the possibility of hauling. Even though this is a 4x4 site, you'd be surprized at the diverse group of members present. Some have a lot of experience with this sort of thing. Some are even brokers, CDXL drivers themselves, deal with trucking all day long, etc. They have insight that can be very valuable for an upstart like yourself.
I would humbly ask myself a few questions: why don't I see many SRW hot shots on the road, why are 99% of them DRW and at leat 3500/4500, what are my expectations for free time and family life?
There's a bunch more, but these are big.
We aren't trying to discourage. But rather we may have seen or experienced a few things that we feel are worthy of sharing with ya.

 

[Darkbloodmon]

In all seriousness I can get you in touch with him if you need more details.

I would appreciate that

 

[Darkbloodmon]

Can someone change the name of this thread from “Looking for advice…” to “Hotshotting with an almost NTPA truck”?

My point was to emphasize that I can pull just fine.

 

[Darkbloodmon]

And power doesn’t really matter much when it comes to hotshotting.
It’s all the other stuff.
You haven’t upgraded the suspension significantly .

I’m not trying to talk you out of it. But when you start talking doing it to make actual money you are talking about spending a ton of time behind the wheel. All that stuff adds up.

Those class 8 trucks you mentioned. There is a reason folks don’t use them for the market you are targeting. What makes them last also makes them more expensive to operate.

I just need bags as far as suspension goes.

 

[shawn]

If it were a CCLB it would certainly be better than @shawn's, but you have to understand that because it's a short bed, you can't even carry plywood, so it's not a real truck.

I'll be the first one to tell you the 2012 F350 pulls a million times better. It's not a fair comparison. F450 is better still.

The 03 Dodge is more fun to drive, but it'll wear you out.

 

[Ron]

My point was to emphasize that I can pull just fine.

And the point the group is making is that hp/tq is probably the least important aspect of "pulling just fine"

I just need bags as far as suspension goes.

This is not correct. Just because you can add bags to get the supposed rating up to an "equal" level that doesnt mean that the geometry, design, etc etc are equal to a new truck.

As @Jody Treadway said above ...several of us are intimately familiar with this from a business stand point.

To give you a little insight, last year I wrote or approved POs for (checks Dynamics account) $924,861 of dedicated freight load hauling and $318,250 Hot shot pick up truck loads.
For starters before anyone can be approved to haul for us they need $1,000,000 freight coverage and a separate $1,000,000 liability policy. (Minimum. Large orders that number changes.)

You will find that pretty standard.

I suspect you will not find an insurance company willing to write that policy on a SRW truck.
I suspect you will also not find a company willing to write that policy on a truck more than 15 years old.

It doesnt matter how much you love your truck. Or even if its the most capable thing ever. Business policies will likely prevent you from moving forward.

 

[StretchASU]

My point was to emphasize that I can pull just fine.

I can change a tire just fine with a 4-way. But if I’m going to do it on a regular basis for my income I’m going to use an impact, not just do a bunch of roids and cardio to use the 4-way faster.

Better yet, I’m going to use @Jody Treadway ’s impact because I knows he’s too busy out riding bicycles to use his.

 

[Jody Treadway]

I can change a tire just fine with a 4-way. But if I’m going to do it on a regular basis for my income I’m going to use an impact, not just do a bunch of roids and cardio to use the 4-way faster.

Better yet, I’m going to use @Jody Treadway ’s impact because I knows he’s too busy out riding bicycles to use his.

You're welcome to it anytime you wish, loverboy

 

[ghost]

And the point the group is making is that hp/tq is probably the least important aspect of "pulling just fine"




This is not correct. Just because you can add bags to get the supposed rating up to an "equal" level that doesnt mean that the geometry, design, etc etc are equal to a new truck.

As @Jody Treadway said above ...several of us are intimately familiar with this from a business stand point.

To give you a little insight, last year I wrote or approved POs for (checks Dynamics account) $924,861 of dedicated freight load hauling and $318,250 Hot shot pick up truck loads.
For starters before anyone can be approved to haul for us they need $1,000,000 freight coverage and a separate $1,000,000 liability policy. (Minimum. Large orders that number changes.)

You will find that pretty standard.

I suspect you will not find an insurance company willing to write that policy on a SRW truck.
I suspect you will also not find a company willing to write that policy on a truck more than 15 years old.

It doesnt matter how much you love your truck. Or even if its the most capable thing ever. Business policies will likely prevent you from moving forward.

"For starters before anyone can be approved to haul for us they need $1,000,000 freight coverage and a separate $1,000,000 liability policy. (Minimum. Large orders that number changes.)"

$1,000,000 freight coverage? Cargo insurance? Or is that something different? We run $200,000 cargo and the standard on trucks I deal with is $100,000.

 

[Darkbloodmon]

said yours was the most powerfulest and was essentially a 3500

I said its just as capable.

it's a short bed, you can't even carry plywood, so it's not a real truck.

I think that 5500 number is going to your head a bit.

 

[Darkbloodmon]

that doesnt mean that the geometry, design, etc etc are equal to a new truck.

Again im not looking to out spec a new truck in every feature and form. I have a truck just as capable of pulling trailers as any other given proper equipment and experience.

I suspect you will not find an insurance company willing to write that policy on a SRW truck.
I suspect you will also not find a company willing to write that policy on a truck more than 15 years old.

It doesnt matter how much you love your truck. Or even if its the most capable thing ever. Business policies will likely prevent you from moving forward.

This is more useful information than the spec nitpicking of my truck. Thank you.

 

[jeepinmatt]

I said its just as capable.

I think that 5500 number is going to your head a bit.

Hi, welcome to the internet. I see you understand everything I am saying.

 

[Ron]

This is more useful information than the spec nitpicking of my truck. Thank you.

Im not spec nitpicking - Im trying to explain how a potential customer looks at your offering...not a personal opinion.
I prefer yur truck John Q Public will not.

 

[Darkbloodmon]

what are my expectations for free time and family life?
There's a bunch more, but these are big.
We aren't trying to discourage. But rather we may have seen or experienced a few things that we feel are worthy of sharing with ya.

Unattached with no responsibilities except bills and student loans.

Im not spec nitpicking - Im trying to explain how a potential customer looks at your offering...not a personal opinion.
I prefer yur truck John Q Public will not.

Am I better off pulling my engine and converting it to a stationary generator to charge Tesla stations? Because from what I'm hearing it seems like I've got a paper weight according to the transport industry for insurance purposes and everyone driving something with a bigger number than 2500 and 03MY.

 

[StretchASU]

Am I better off pulling my engine and converting it to a stationary generator to charge Tesla stations?

Great you asked, @Ron will probably be educate you thoroughly on that process and capabilities of Cummins based power systems.

 

[Ron]

Great you asked, @Ron will probably be educate you thoroughly on that process and capabilities of Cummins based power systems.

In case @Darkbloodmon didnt get the joke, I spent over a decade working for Cummins in their power generation division.

The last few of those years I was in management of a branch with a 15 bay truck shop and some of our regular customers were hot shot drivers. Id venture to say at any point we had 1 hotshot truck in the shop.

BTW - truck engines make Horrible power gen power plants. You need a G drive steady state engine as PG engines needs to hit a steady RPM and vary by less than 5 rpms continuous. That has specific loads and challenges and multi speed enginee dont last.

All that said...
This isnt a knock on your truck. Please hear that and trust it.
There is a huge difference between putting 250k miles on a truck in 18 years and doing it in 2 years. Just the shear hours of constant run, and the heat soak that entails, and the stressors put on parts..little things like bushings in suspensions or - like you mentioned brake pads - those sitting over night and then running 2 hours is much different than running 10 hours constant day after day.

The older a vehicle gets the less reliable it gets on average. This doesn't mean your specific truck wont be reliable - it just means on average most trucks that age arent as reliable as new trucks. So if I as a contractor of freight carriage depend on my freight to move consistently then I need to develop business guidelines that make that happen. If I notice that I contract 1,000 loads and have 20 delivery failures. And then I analyze and see that 18 of those 20 were in trucks more than 10 years old. - despite the fact that maybe 500 loads were delivered by newer and 500 by older - if the failures all - or mostly - come from the older group I am going to insist on newer equipment to carry my freight. Then you are limiting who you can attach to. You are already limiting your attachment by being power only. Soon you are only leaving yourself able to contract the shit work that no other driver wants.

Now lets look at some basic math.
I can hire truck/trailer haulers at $1.30/mile all day to haul 30' and under loads up from Florida (I do this about 3x/month on average) - I am using that as the going rate.
From talking to a myriad of guys who run these trucks they tell me that expenses - fuel, repairs, tires, chains, binders, etc will eat up 50-75% of your billable rate.
Now Let assume you want to make a $60k/year income.
Your truck is going to need to generate somewhere between $120k and $240k (Im being way basic and not including insurance and such - as honestly I dont know if the guys spouting those 50-75% included those in their number and the truth is it probably depends on what end of the range you are on)
So if we back into that it means you will need to drive somewhere between 92,000 and 184,000 miles a year to make a $60k income.

BTW if your truck breaks down and you dont deliver on time not only are you maybe not getting paid for that load, you may also owe them a fine. When time and mileage are that critical you start to see why everyone doing it is driving a newer truck.

 

[Darkbloodmon]

So if we back into that it means you will need to drive somewhere between 92,000 and 184,000 miles a year to make a $60k income.

BTW if your truck breaks down and you dont deliver on time not only are you maybe not getting paid for that load, you may also owe them a fine. When time and mileage are that critical you start to see why everyone doing it is driving a newer truck.

I have full confidence in being able to put that many miles + on pulling with my setup given the extensive work I've done to it without being stranded. But I digress. If no one signs me with an 03' trailer or not I'm not in a position to dive into my own authority. Moving on.

Does anyone have any experience in the dump trailer business?