Random pic thread.

So is this the common way to fix a diesel? Seems like people bitch about Ford's because you have to separate the body from the chassis.
I swapped out a blown up Cummins in an 04 I used to have with jackstands and a engine hoist. Didn't lift the cab. But if you have a lift, might as well use it and make it easier on yourself.
 
So is this the common way to fix a diesel? Seems like people bitch about Ford's because you have to separate the body from the chassis.
Yes and no. In the newer trucks (2010+ I believe) there's a crossmember that makes it basically impossible to get the Cummins out without lifting the body 6-8", and by the time you get enough stuff loose to do that, another 0.5-1hr worth of work lets you lift the body completely up. I believe the Fords have their design tailored to getting the cab off a bit easier, so Ford just defaults to cab off for a lot more things. Because of this, they get the rep for "having to take the cab off for everything", but honestly it's probably not a bad thing for half of the stuff. Stupid when you have to change a power steering pump or something "simple", but better for more involved repairs. The Ram/Cummins definitely has a less crowded engine bay, but it's still pretty darn difficult to access things. I was able to get the head off without lifting the cab, but if I had done head studs instead of bolts, I would have had to raise the cab to get it back in.
 
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Yes and no. In the newer trucks (2010+ I believe) there's a crossmember that makes it basically impossible to get the Cummins out without lifting the body 6-8", and by the time you get enough stuff loose to do that, another 0.5-1hr worth of work lets you lift the body completely up. I believe the Fords have their design tailored to getting the cab off a bit easier, so Ford just defaults to cab off for a lot more things. Because of this, they get the rep for "having to take the cab off for everything", but honestly it's probably not a bad thing for half of the stuff. Stupid when you have to change a power steering pump or something "simple", but better for more involved repairs. The Ram/Cummins definitely has a less crowded engine bay, but it's still pretty darn difficult to access things. I was able to get the head off without lifting the cab, but if I had done head studs instead of bolts, I would have had to raise the cab to get it back in.
I looked at the baby duramax/1500 a couple years back. It has some fuel system pump on the back of the engine that the cab has to come off to access, its under the cowl against the firewall. The sales rep told me the pump has a 80,000 mile life expectancy.
 
Yes and no. In the newer trucks (2010+ I believe) there's a crossmember that makes it basically impossible to get the Cummins out without lifting the body 6-8", and by the time you get enough stuff loose to do that, another 0.5-1hr worth of work lets you lift the body completely up. I believe the Fords have their design tailored to getting the cab off a bit easier, so Ford just defaults to cab off for a lot more things. Because of this, they get the rep for "having to take the cab off for everything", but honestly it's probably not a bad thing for half of the stuff. Stupid when you have to change a power steering pump or something "simple", but better for more involved repairs. The Ram/Cummins definitely has a less crowded engine bay, but it's still pretty darn difficult to access things. I was able to get the head off without lifting the cab, but if I had done head studs instead of bolts, I would have had to raise the cab to get it back in.
The owner of the shop that services company fleet will not do any work that requires removal of the cab. Ties up the lift too long waiting on parts and or disassembly/reassembly time, he can make more money with other work using the lift. Can't blame him for it.
 
I looked at the baby duramax/1500 a couple years back. It has some fuel system pump on the back of the engine that the cab has to come off to access, its under the cowl against the firewall. The sales rep told me the pump has a 80,000 mile life expectancy.
The fact is a known issue at the dealership and they are open about it is pretty sad….
 
Matt (@jeepinmatt ), i've been watching this with interest but I think I missed what the root cause of your engine/piston problem (if known)? As a fellow Cummings owner, I am curious (although if mine blows, its would be from over torquing on the speed humps at Food Lion as thats about as much action as it gets now days).

I also had the same question for @skyhighZJ, what caused your Cummins head issues if you know?
 
Yes and no. In the newer trucks (2010+ I believe) there's a crossmember that makes it basically impossible to get the Cummins out without lifting the body 6-8", and by the time you get enough stuff loose to do that, another 0.5-1hr worth of work lets you lift the body completely up. I believe the Fords have their design tailored to getting the cab off a bit easier, so Ford just defaults to cab off for a lot more things. Because of this, they get the rep for "having to take the cab off for everything", but honestly it's probably not a bad thing for half of the stuff. Stupid when you have to change a power steering pump or something "simple", but better for more involved repairs. The Ram/Cummins definitely has a less crowded engine bay, but it's still pretty darn difficult to access things. I was able to get the head off without lifting the cab, but if I had done head studs instead of bolts, I would have had to raise the cab to get it back in.
Yes Fords are designed to have the cab removed. They do it well bulk harnesses and quick connect hoses. The 08 with the 6.4 was the first that "required " cab removal.
 
Matt (@jeepinmatt ), i've been watching this with interest but I think I missed what the root cause of your engine/piston problem (if known)? As a fellow Cummings owner, I am curious (although if mine blows, its would be from over torquing on the speed humps at Food Lion as thats about as much action as it gets now days).

I also had the same question for @skyhighZJ, what caused your Cummins head issues if you know?
I’m not sure on mine as I’m 99.9% sure it was hurt when I bought it. PO didn’t disclose anything and I didn’t do the diligence I should have investigating prior to purchase. If I had to guess on mine it was from towing WAY too heavy and getting it hot. If I had the ability (and it existed in the computer capabilities) it would be interesting to go back and see if there were any peaks in recorded fluid temps.
 
Matt (@jeepinmatt ), i've been watching this with interest but I think I missed what the root cause of your engine/piston problem (if known)? As a fellow Cummings owner, I am curious (although if mine blows, its would be from over torquing on the speed humps at Food Lion as thats about as much action as it gets now days).

I also had the same question for @skyhighZJ, what caused your Cummins head issues if you know?
Hard to say. Core failure was a hole in #1 piston due to heat. Not that the whole cylinder was running hot, but there was a hot spot which melted through, resulting in boom boom sauce in the lube cavity. This was on #1, however, 4 of the remaining 5 pistons had various levels of cracks or hot spots forming due to a similar heat situation, so I think it was bound to happen elsewhere if #1 didn’t go first. In my mind, that rules out a bad injector. Could be tune related, but the truck has 200k miles and has been running the same tune for at least 100k miles, so I’m reluctant to pin it on that. I was going up I-26 about a mile into the Saluda grade grossing about 25k pounds when it happened, and my foot was in the throttle pretty deep. But I’ve ran 321 up to Boone literally at full throttle and 25999.99 pounds multiple times, and I believe it’s steeper than Saluda. Plus I wasn’t a long way into the Saluda climb. Obviously it was heat and load related, but I’m not sure what was different. Maybe since Saluda wasn’t as steep, it was a gear higher, spinning at a lower RPM, relying more on boost and timing more so than a lower gear and higher RPM. Other than that, everything looks absolutely great, so unless you’re tuned and deleted and grossing 13 tons, I wouldn’t be too concerned.
 
Hard to say. Core failure was a hole in #1 piston due to heat. Not that the whole cylinder was running hot, but there was a hot spot which melted through, resulting in boom boom sauce in the lube cavity. This was on #1, however, 4 of the remaining 5 pistons had various levels of cracks or hot spots forming due to a similar heat situation, so I think it was bound to happen elsewhere if #1 didn’t go first. In my mind, that rules out a bad injector. Could be tune related, but the truck has 200k miles and has been running the same tune for at least 100k miles, so I’m reluctant to pin it on that. I was going up I-26 about a mile into the Saluda grade grossing about 25k pounds when it happened, and my foot was in the throttle pretty deep. But I’ve ran 321 up to Boone literally at full throttle and 25999.99 pounds multiple times, and I believe it’s steeper than Saluda. Plus I wasn’t a long way into the Saluda climb. Obviously it was heat and load related, but I’m not sure what was different. Maybe since Saluda wasn’t as steep, it was a gear higher, spinning at a lower RPM, relying more on boost and timing more so than a lower gear and higher RPM. Other than that, everything looks absolutely great, so unless you’re tuned and deleted and grossing 13 tons, I wouldn’t be too concerned.
Do you have an EGT gauge and were you watching it?


Warning old man rant

The tuner generation is interesting....just 15 years ago folks were tuning 6.0 and 5.9s to get 650-750 tq...now stock we are in the 900-1100 range...yet smoke bros gonna smoke bro and have to have a tuner.

The 3406 ('Four and a quarter') Cat and the ISX 15 (Cummins) and its predecessor N14 - have long been the staple of the OTR truck industry. The so called million mile engines. And many go multiple millions with only in frames.
Those are nominal 15 liter platforms rated at 400-500hp and 1300-1400 ft lbs of torque. Thats what pulls 40 tons down the road daily in road tractors.
15 liters. The 6.X liters pickup engines are obviosuly a little less than half that displacement and are being tuned to damn near the same power outputs (or higher in some applications). Things are going to break. To further tune them and boost beyond factory levels is, honestly asinine. IF YOU WANT IT TO WORK AND LAST.

When you start looking at BEMP vs cylinder wall thickness, piston thickness, ring thickness, etc etc etc...its clear the different in robustness between the two designs.

The 5.9 B series were mostly sub 200hp and 4-500 ftlb factory ratings. Looking at the power per cubic inch you see a pretty linear relation to the OTR big brother.

Frankly, none of the big 1ton class trucks are truly engineered to be towing 10+ tons much over 60mph and have any headroom for murphy's law. But we have so disconnected the driver from the mechanical aspects of his chariot, that we have instilled over confidence that allows people to use modern trucks in a way that is beyond safe. Dont get me started on 70 year olds in pusher motor homes.

rant off

Saluda is far steeper for longer than 321. Hell the train track it mirrors is the steepest, longest grade in US rail history.
 
Do you have an EGT gauge and were you watching it?


Warning old man rant

The tuner generation is interesting....just 15 years ago folks were tuning 6.0 and 5.9s to get 650-750 tq...now stock we are in the 900-1100 range...yet smoke bros gonna smoke bro and have to have a tuner.

The 3406 ('Four and a quarter') Cat and the ISX 15 (Cummins) and its predecessor N14 - have long been the staple of the OTR truck industry. The so called million mile engines. And many go multiple millions with only in frames.
Those are nominal 15 liter platforms rated at 400-500hp and 1300-1400 ft lbs of torque. Thats what pulls 40 tons down the road daily in road tractors.
15 liters. The 6.X liters pickup engines are obviosuly a little less than half that displacement and are being tuned to damn near the same power outputs (or higher in some applications). Things are going to break. To further tune them and boost beyond factory levels is, honestly asinine. IF YOU WANT IT TO WORK AND LAST.

When you start looking at BEMP vs cylinder wall thickness, piston thickness, ring thickness, etc etc etc...its clear the different in robustness between the two designs.

The 5.9 B series were mostly sub 200hp and 4-500 ftlb factory ratings. Looking at the power per cubic inch you see a pretty linear relation to the OTR big brother.

Frankly, none of the big 1ton class trucks are truly engineered to be towing 10+ tons much over 60mph and have any headroom for murphy's law. But we have so disconnected the driver from the mechanical aspects of his chariot, that we have instilled over confidence that allows people to use modern trucks in a way that is beyond safe. Dont get me started on 70 year olds in pusher motor homes.

rant off

Saluda is far steeper for longer than 321. Hell the train track it mirrors is the steepest, longest grade in US rail history.

💅💅Cant tell him nothin. I been sayin the same shit
 
Do you have an EGT gauge and were you watching it?
No.
Saluda is far steeper for longer than 321. Hell the train track it mirrors is the steepest, longest grade in US rail history.
Are we talking about the same thing? Saluda is less than 1000ft over 6 miles and 321 is 2200ft over 8 miles. Yes, 321 has a bit of a reprieve in the middle, but that also means the climbing is steeper in the other areas.
 
No.

Are we talking about the same thing? Saluda is less than 1000ft over 6 miles and 321 is 2200ft over 8 miles. Yes, 321 has a bit of a reprieve in the middle, but that also means the climbing is steeper in the other areas.
Saluda is a sustained 6% over 4 miles.
321 max grade is 5.5%

There is a reason freight brokers pay a premium for any load going up saluda and dont for loads going up 321.

If you were cresting saulda anywhere above 50mph with that load - you were well beyond specs and just abusing the truck.

Also reprieves allow the turbo to cool. As much of an injuneer and a gear head as you are I'm honestly shocked you were towing with a turbo diesel without an EGT gauge.
Then again everyone wondered how I got 280k miles out of a 6.0.

Diesels aren't like gas engines. They dont like RPMs. They are tractors, put them in their sweet spot RPM range and let it eat. Let the mph fall as necessary to maintain the RPMs. Do that and you dont need to monitor EGTs...but so few do.
The 6.7 stock peak torque power band is between 1700 and 1900 rpm. Factory red line defuel point is 2950. Tuners almost universally remove the defuel point..wanna guess why they defuel? To keep EGTs low.

EGTs climb, you blow hot air into the turbo you flow that hot air into the combustion chamber, you increase combustion temp...its a run-a-way cycle.
 
This is why I have always refrained from tunning my 24 valve. That and the auto trans. It may dump on me towing home but it almost always has something hooked to it. I drive the old 7.3 ton with less then 50k on it just to keep miles off it. I've only slowed down on driving it because that clutch knee gets surgery in a few weeks

On the note of the ton. Its incredibly slow. Geared dumb low. It will also pull what ever I need, just not in a hurry. To Rons thought, I can never understand all these small businesses that insist on 450-550 4500-5500 platforms.
Why not get a real work horse like the International trucks available with juice brakes. Or do the sensible thing and get a cdl, buy the appropriate truck and realistically never wear it out.

Edit: said all this owning a gas 450 ford. Most regretted purchase I've made for its intended use. The crane sold me but it needs to be on an F600 or similar class truck to do what I want.
 
Saluda is a sustained 6% over 4 miles.
321 max grade is 5.5%

There is a reason freight brokers pay a premium for any load going up saluda and dont for loads going up 321.

If you were cresting saulda anywhere above 50mph with that load - you were well beyond specs and just abusing the truck.

Also reprieves allow the turbo to cool. As much of an injuneer and a gear head as you are I'm honestly shocked you were towing with a turbo diesel without an EGT gauge.
Then again everyone wondered how I got 280k miles out of a 6.0.

Diesels aren't like gas engines. They dont like RPMs. They are tractors, put them in their sweet spot RPM range and let it eat. Let the mph fall as necessary to maintain the RPMs. Do that and you dont need to monitor EGTs...but so few do.
The 6.7 stock peak torque power band is between 1700 and 1900 rpm. Factory red line defuel point is 2950. Tuners almost universally remove the defuel point..wanna guess why they defuel? To keep EGTs low.

EGTs climb, you blow hot air into the turbo you flow that hot air into the combustion chamber, you increase combustion temp...it’s a run-a-way cycle.
I’d love to know where you got the grade ratings for 321 because I couldn’t find anything with a quick search, so I just did point to point on Google Maps.

FWIW I was running about 87-88mph passing a Ford and a Chevy pulling utility trailers with a couple push mowers on them when it gave out.
 
I'm targeting 750hp with my cummins build. Will take me awhile to build it up due to stuff ain't cheap, currently tuned deleted with a built trans and at 300k miles. Probably be 350k before I get all the air and fuel parts installed and I also plan to gross 25,999.9 pounds up mountains while passing people...
:popcorn:
 
Why not get a real work horse like the International trucks available with juice brakes. Or do the sensible thing and get a cdl, buy the appropriate truck and realistically never wear it out.
insurance is one reason.

It jumps hard
 
This is the one I have, it matches the stock gauges.

Same. Trans temp gauge too, though after the recent upgrades it rarely gets above 120 degrees.

Duane
 
Happy New year ya'll. I want make it til 12.

Mimosa, Fire, the Coast, and a hot supper in my belly!
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Hard to say. Core failure was a hole in #1 piston due to heat. Not that the whole cylinder was running hot, but there was a hot spot which melted through, resulting in boom boom sauce in the lube cavity. This was on #1, however, 4 of the remaining 5 pistons had various levels of cracks or hot spots forming due to a similar heat situation, so I think it was bound to happen elsewhere if #1 didn’t go first. In my mind, that rules out a bad injector. Could be tune related, but the truck has 200k miles and has been running the same tune for at least 100k miles, so I’m reluctant to pin it on that. I was going up I-26 about a mile into the Saluda grade grossing about 25k pounds when it happened, and my foot was in the throttle pretty deep. But I’ve ran 321 up to Boone literally at full throttle and 25999.99 pounds multiple times, and I believe it’s steeper than Saluda. Plus I wasn’t a long way into the Saluda climb. Obviously it was heat and load related, but I’m not sure what was different. Maybe since Saluda wasn’t as steep, it was a gear higher, spinning at a lower RPM, relying more on boost and timing more so than a lower gear and higher RPM. Other than that, everything looks absolutely great, so unless you’re tuned and deleted and grossing 13 tons, I wouldn’t be too concerned.
How big of a tune ?
If all were getting hot, seems like tune/timing to me. I'm no expert but definitely not a bad injector. I think k number 6 is most likely to get hot without a coolant bypass.
 
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