10 bolt axle tech discussion

[Ricky B]

I just picked up my axles monday here's some pics:

 

[Cperry]

I had 35's on 10bolts once...
I was at URE and left the parking brake on, there was a bang and then I saw my tire had decided he wasn't going to stay with the rest of car part gang and he rolled off. I guess he was tired and didn't want to wheel anymore, he was just going to take a break in the shade.

The reason why toys are better is b/c they are bolted to the axle, and 10b's have the c clip, so your tire doesn't stay on if your axle breaks, among other reasons but that is huge in my opinion.

 

[bronc'nBK]

so what makes a 10 bolt so much worse than a dana 44? you see plenty of jeeps rollin around on 35-37's with 44's. from my research there are also plenty of mods for the 2.8 available...

ricky, these guys might give ya hell, but i support ya for your creativity and desire for a unique rig on a tight budget. let me know when ya need help on any of it.

 

[maulcruiser]

Just go with what you want, Ricky. These guys are basing the opinion of the 10 bolt to it's life under a vehicle that weighs 3 times as much as a Samurai. A 10 bolt WILL hold a 38 under a Zuk, especially with the 2.8L.

I see no problem with it. You're using common GM parts, available at ANY parts store or junkyard.

 

[ManglerYJ]

Just go with what you want, Ricky. These guys are basing the opinion of the 10 bolt to it's life under a vehicle that weighs 3 times as much as a Samurai. A 10 bolt WILL hold a 38 under a Zuk, especially with the 2.8L.

I see no problem with it. You're using common GM parts, available at ANY parts store or junkyard.

For that matter, why not just stick with the stock Sammy axles until they break? If you are throwing parts in just because they are available, you are adding a LOT of work to retrofit something that's not a whole lot stronger to begin with.

I had planned on building a sammy to compete with. My plans were a 2.3 liter turbo intercooled motor out of a Thunderbird Turbo Coupe, auto tranny out of same, Sammy t-case with 4:1 gearing and Dana 44's with 5.89 gears in them pushing 36" SX's. The T-bird I was looking to pick up for $400 ran fine but was just rusted to $h!t. The axles I picked up for a good deal as well as the 5.89 gears. I figured that with all that gearing, it should keep the turbo spooled up pretty well and that heat would be the main factor in the success of the buggy. I figured on either an aluminum radiator or one out of a 5.0 Ford Mustang that was available. I had not yet purchased the T-bird when I decided that my simple plan was going to take me WAY more time and way more money than I could afford.

My advice: Run it like it is until you find it's weak spots, then address them all at once and build what you are eventually going to end up with FIRST. If you think eventually you will go with 60's front and rear, look for 60's up front. Don't dink with something "Just cuz it's there". You will be better off in the long run. Also, bear in mind the purpose you are building the rig for. If you are just building a show truck, 10 bolts are fine. They are even OK for a mud truck that weight. From my understanding the reason 10 bolts got a bad rap is the ring and pinion, not the shaft size.

 

[Caver Dave]

These guys are basing the opinion of the 10 bolt to it's life under a vehicle that weighs 3 times as much as a Samurai. A 10 bolt WILL hold a 38 under a Zuk, especially with the 2.8L

I have to agree... under a fullsize rig, 10b's are a POS! However, I had bud that ran them for several years in a fiberglass tubbed CJ5 w/ FI 4.3L V6, one of the low geared 4 speeds (SM420/NP465), NP20x, and 38" Gumbos... living 30 minutes from Tellico & Dayton, an hour from WindRocks, RoyalBlue, and "URE class" trails in his backyard, you can bet the farm he wheeled the @#$% outta the thing every other weekend for a few years. His main reason for using them was the realitively light weight of his rig (est. 2500#), and he said folks in east TN. were "throwing them away/free for the taking" already geared & locked (he had *several* sets).

He later parted out the CJ5 & swapped the axles into a tubed CJ3.5 (CJ7 cut in half) with larger V8 & 42"s... began blowing shafts just getting on/off the trailer!

Having said that, IF *I* had to BUY new gears & lockers, it'd dang sure wouldn't be a 10/12b axle... no matter what they were going under!

 

[Banned User]

Just decided to post because i was running a 10 bolt with 36's and just the other day ALL my gears inside the diff, as well as the internals of the axle stripped WHILE DRIVING DOWN THE STREET and put pieces of gears THROUGH the aftermarket half-inch-thick chrome diff cover. I scooped handfulls of pieces of random metal chunks out of my diff...i now get to buy a new axle...needless to say i now hate 10 bolts. I never wheeled that truck in its life and the 10blt went out while driving 35 mph?

 

[TheGeneral]

We had a work van with a ten bolt rear explode after 80 thousand miles, there cheap to buy but really not any cheaper than any thing else to rebuild.

 

[maulcruiser]

both of you (Cas22 & TheGeneral) must have had a Gov-loc....if so, then it was only a matter of time.

 

[Rich]

and put pieces of gears THROUGH the aftermarket half-inch-thick chrome diff cover.

I have never seen an aftermarket cover that's a full 1/2" thick, let alone a chrome one. Pics!

 

[upnover]

I ran a 10 bolt/12 bolt set up in My jeep for about 5 years. Always carried extra axles, still have them! never used them. Back then it was a DD and a trail machine. I broke drive shafts, yokes, but never an axle shaft. I ran 35 Mud Kings on hwy, and 35 boggers on trail. IMHO under a Sammy, I think it will be just as strong as my one tons are under my current set up. Draw back, the 12 bolt is a C-Clip. Oh and I was running ARB's front and rear with 4:10 gears

 

[Banned User]

I have never seen an aftermarket cover that's a full 1/2" thick, let alone a chrome one. Pics!

The diff cover was maybe 1-3 mm less than half an inch thick, but it was up there. Also i believe it is just steel with chrome plating. Regardless it was punctured.
Im not talking about huge holes, what it was was that the diff cover, when i got back there and looked at it (after my driveline locking up and my truck skidding to a stop) had little raised up points sticking up off of the cover where gear chunks dented it from the inside out, and then two of those dents had holes at the top of it.
The fluid (gear-soup) that flowed out was Silver from powdered gears in it. I did take some pictures of the bucket-o-crap that came out of my diff, and the cover with a little disposable camera so i'll post when i get them developed and scanned.
Turns out though, the carnage was bad, but not as bad as i thought. My shafts and spline were ok and a mechanic told me "what it looks like is whoever had this axle before you replaced all the internals with heavy duty parts-EXCEPT this piece, and thats what stripped and when it did it wedged in between everything else and went to hell fom there fast"
Instead of new axle im just gonna rebuild with quality parts. Its gonna be expensive though (new carrier and everything) I think the best part of the ordeal was that i didnt have my front drive shaft in (was getting worked on) so i had tog et a ride home, then go back take out my back one, and put the front one in before driving home in 4wd.
-chase
( i'm still gonna bash 10blt's because of my expierience, hah)

 

[Banned User]

by the way, just a suggestion but why doesnt all this 10 vs 14 crap get moved to axle tech...then ricky can have this space to talk about the Samurai...
-chase

 

[kilby]

Sorry Ricky...
I was trying to split the thread and somehow ended up deleting the rest of it.
I'm webtarded I guess.

 

[Metto]

chase why not put a 14 bolt back in the silverado after all that? im sure its going to be cheaper than what the mechanic is going to charge to do all that work plus parts

 

[Ricky B]

What got deleted? Oh well Looks fine to me, as far as the 10 bolt it seems like half of the people say its good and half say its not, like I said from my personal experince 10 bolts hold up well to 35's and a locker, when I had my 10 bolt in my chevy regeared i put in a new carrier and a master install kit along with the EZ locker, I don't know if any of that really made any difference as far as adding strength but that alxe has held to everything I've thrown at it even axle wrap so bad that the yoke bit into the driveshaft once, still got the marks .

I agree with Metto on this one though Chase it would probably be a better Idea to put in a 14 Bolt while you have the chance rather than rebuild your 10 bolt.

PS: Those axles in the first post are my 14 bolt and HD44, not the 10 bolts I have

 

[thecarman]

To get around the issue of C-clip rear axles pulling out of the axle housing if they break, convert to rear discs. The caliper will hold onto the disc, keeping the shaft from sliding out. You can't really drive home on it, but you can definitely drive off the trail with it. Can be done fairly inexpensively.

 

[Rich]

Besides the actual vehicle weight being left out of alot of these discussions, the driver's style, and the trails he'll really run are HUGE factors in whether the axle lives or dies.

My driving style has let my cruiser axle live under 38's. Someone like Mr. Nuts would shatter them in a heartbeat.

jrraw says "my personal experince 10 bolts hold up well to 35's and a locker", so both his driving style and the trails he runs let that axle hold up.

His 1/2 ton truck thing probably has about as much weight over that 10 bolt as a Sami (with his "proposed" drivetrain) would, so the other 2 factors weigh in more heavily.

 

[Ricky B]

Honestly as far as how I drive on it, off roading wise it's seen mainly mud but its been to uwharrie twice (that was a mistake) don't get me wrong, I'm the first to admit its a street queen, thats why I said uwharrie was a mistake because I scratched the hell out of my paint so yea the Z71 doenst like to get hurt, it'll get dirty, just not hurt. But when I drive and when I offroad I am probably the worst when it comes to driving style. I know you guys will hate me when I say this but my theory is nail the damn gas and you'll either get through it or launch over it. Thats probably why I broke my steering box while I was at uwharrie this past may . You can ask my friend Jake, he s a good friend of Seths Family and has the Bronco that Seth made bumpers for and put on his Rockmonkey website. Jake and I were friends through Middle School, High School, we were roomates last year and we live in the same suite this year. He says I'm quite possibly the worst driver out there because my "just hit the gas" theory. I drive on the road like that alot too, I burn rubber quite alot from sitting still (thus the dangerously close to breaking axle wrap ) and nail the gas all the time.

Ok now that you have kind of a perspective on how I drive, thats kinda why I think 10 bolts are under rated. Given I havn't been at this half as long as say the more experienced people here like you Rich or others that have way more experience than me. I just have been doing this to that rear axle for 2.5 years now and it's still Kicking.

As far a wieght, not trying to sound aggresive/ignorant or anything but, from what I've heard it doesn't seem that the samurai will weigh anywhere near the wieght of my Z71 .

Thanks for the input .

 

[Rich]

As far a wieght, not trying to sound aggresive/ignorant or anything but, from what I've heard it doesn't seem that the samurai will weigh anywhere near the wieght of my Z71 ..

I said the weight *over that 10b*, which is in the rear of a pickup truck, which is to say not alot.

I wasn't bagging on you, just pointing out the 3 most important factors in figuring out what will live and what won't. Don't take it personally. If anything, i was saying that I drive like a wuss.

 

[Ricky B]

No offensense taken at all, Tru i thought about the rear of the pickup is alot lighter than the front, but the actual frame itself is probably alot heavyer than the samurai's, and there is alot more of that frame/body on top of the axles than there will be samurai.

PS: If i had spent that much time and effort on such a nice rig I would drive like a wuss too or I'd be crying after I destroyed it

 

[Banned User]

chase why not put a 14 bolt back in the silverado after all that? im sure its going to be cheaper than what the mechanic is going to charge to do all that work plus parts

...........hmm
....am i an idiot for not thinking of that? hah
And no it wouldnt be cheaper because im gonna get a huge discount on parts and whatnot, but still, it wouldnt be that much more expensive for the 14 and i might as well do it right if im gonna do it. Thanks though for the obvious suggestion that i missed-hah
-chase

 

[Ron]

...........
And no it wouldnt be cheaper because im gonna get a huge discount on parts and whatnot
-chase

If you check PullAPart in Charlotte, you can score a 14 bolt for under $100 drum to drum

As for the whole 10b debate, I'll chime in my experinces for what they are worth.
Ran a LONG BED C10 on 38 Boggers 10B and locked (NO LAUGHING!!!) for two years in high school(didn't know better) and wheeled the piss outta it, never had a problem

Later on K5 #1 ran a ten bolt front (pre/post D44 Gm made hybrid WHATEVER)
for like 2 seasons at Uwharrie and 1 Tellcio trip (37 claws) no problems later snapped an axle on the highway (again ignorance 4WD power braking) and after that went through "good" shafts like MD 20/20 through a wino. Swore off the 10 bolt.

BUT there is a guy on here I think its John (jwclark24?) that runs a 10 bolt front IIRC and his truck was recently featured on CK5 as GM of the month. He runs 42 TSLs and from wht I understand, is pretty fond of the skinny pedal, said he has no problems outta the "Li'L Axle"...
Well no my position is as clear as mud, I'll return to my sideline and watch!

 

[drkelly]

my theory is nail the damn gas and you'll either get through it or launch over it.

Better get rid of the 10 bolts.

DK