1500 vs 2500 trucks gassers..learns me

John Fuller

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maybe not all but i've noticed most 2500 trucks have same trans, motor, ignition systems, and similar power outputs as the 1500 series EXCEPT they are 8 LUG...so i don't mean to sound stupid but how is it just having a 8 lug axle can pull more weight better/stronger/faster/more raliable than 5/6 lug truck with same if not very similar drivetrain? Am i missing something or is it just all in the transmission gearing that's different and differential gear ratios (which would still not make much sense at all to me)? i know the 3500s/2500 diesels fall in different categories but just having hard time understanding people's bragging about their 2500 series trucks with same gas engines and trannys as someone's 1500 and claim mileage and power is like way better. (yes, i have recently encountered some "construction" workers bragging about their 2500s, couple being fords with same motor and such but the 8 lug setup and i just don't see it!!)
 
Brakes, suspension and weight matter a whole lot more than motor when towing.
 
Brakes, suspension and weight matter a whole lot more than motor when towing.
i get that so from this are you saying that these 3 are the main differences from one to the other. and what do you mean by weight...i guess your saying the 2500s weigh a lot more, therefor the heavier the truck the better it handles the load cause it's more stable (which i think is why Duallies tow so much better)..
 
I always thought the 3/4 and 1 tons (2500/3500) had beefier frames and cross members than the half tons (1500), to accommodate the bigger axles, brakes suspension, loads, weights, etc.
 
This is all going to depend on specific brand and year but....


Most 3/4 or 1 ton trucks will have a much heavier frame than a half ton equivalent. This will add rigidity and torsional strength for pulling loads.
Most will have larger axles and better gearing. This will help by having more gear fluid to better dissipate heat generated by towing and upgraded axles that are better able to handle loads.
Most will have much larger brakes which will help to stop the load.
Most will have much beefier and higher rate suspensions which will help support and control the loads better while towing.


All of these upgrades will result in a higher vehicle weight which will help control stopping heavier loads by countering "load push"

Duallies tow better because they have more surface area in contact with the road.

Your truck will not compare to a similar year F250 with a 5.4 when towing any moderately heavy load.
 
^^^^ yep. My 03 F250 rides much better with a ton of gravel in the bed than it does unloaded. I would imagine that same load would put a 150 on the bumpstops.
 
well thank you for clearing all this up. good to know finally the difference between all these trucks!! very good explanation mr. Ron
 
having hard time understanding people's bragging about their 2500 series trucks with same gas engines and trannys as someone's 1500 and claim mileage and power is like way better. (yes, i have recently encountered some "construction" workers bragging about their 2500s, couple being fords with same motor and such but the 8 lug setup and i just don't see it!!)

Anyone with a 2500 or 3500 claiming better mileage and more power than a 1500 with the same motor is a moron. The 2500 and 3500 will be heavier and get worse mileage.
 
the better mileage and power could come just from gearing, my 2500 crew cab short bed had a 350, 4l80e trans, 5.38 gears and 41s a blackbear performance tune, buddies truck 1500 extended cab short bed had 350, 4l60e trans 3.73 gears and 38s and a superchips tune, my truck would get 3/4 mpg more than his around town and had a hell of a lot more power. mostly with the gearing mine loved the city (start/stopping) where his loved the hwy with the tall tires and higher gears where mine with the low gears and tall tires sucked and would drop mpg. so the gearing between the trucks imo out weighs the weight difference and strain on the motor resulting in same or better mpg around town atleast
 
This is all going to depend on specific brand and year but....


Most 3/4 or 1 ton trucks will have a much heavier frame than a half ton equivalent. This will add rigidity and torsional strength for pulling loads.
Most will have larger axles and better gearing. This will help by having more gear fluid to better dissipate heat generated by towing and upgraded axles that are better able to handle loads.
Most will have much larger brakes which will help to stop the load.
Most will have much beefier and higher rate suspensions which will help support and control the loads better while towing.


All of these upgrades will result in a higher vehicle weight which will help control stopping heavier loads by countering "load push"

Duallies tow better because they have more surface area in contact with the road.

Your truck will not compare to a similar year F250 with a 5.4 when towing any moderately heavy load.

This.

My experience is with 2500 suburbans from 1993 - 2001, and my 2500 avalanche.

These are the differences I note in the 2500.

4L80/ 4L85 transmission over the 4L60, auxiliary trans cooler in addition to the one in the radiator.

Bigger frames, brakes, heavier springs, stiffer shocks

Axles and u joints are bigger and hold more oil. Bigger bearings in the axles that last longer under load.

Some 1500s and 2500s share the same motor, but the big differences come with the larger engines.

6.0/454/8.1L. Not only offer increase hp & tq, but offer better compression braking as well. The big block engines also hold more oil and water.

2500s also have bigger radiators that help keep the engines cooler when pulling long grades in hot weather.

Different fans, and different fan clutches that lock up sooner.

In addition to bigger brakes at the wheels, most 2500s have larger ps pumps with coolers and have hydroboost master cylinders.

These get the brake pressure above what is capable with manual, or vacuum assisted brakes.

On our 01 suburban, tow/haul mode does nothing, and never has made a noticeable difference.

On my 04 avalanche, it is a night and day difference, giving higher rpm shift points, with mph minimums for each gear, and much firmer and faster shifts. It will also hold out of overdrive until over 65 mph.

Don't know if the tow haul mode on 1/2 tons does the same or not. Definitely reduces the time hunting for a gear on the long grades at hwy speeds.

Huge difference going from Load range C tires to 8/10 ply load range d/e tires.

I have never seen a 2500 get better fuel mileage than the 1500 comparable truck.

Unloaded, the smaller motors get better fuel mileage, and the opposite is true towing.

Ex:

01 2500 6.0, 265 tires, 3.73 ratio gets 13-15 mpg empty hwy, 6-9 mpg towing on flat ground, and 3-5 mpg in the hills. Gets 11-13 towing 3k lbs.

97 2500 7.4L, 285 tires, 4.10 ratio gets 13-15 empty hwy, 7-10 mpg towing on flat ground, and 5-9 in the hills. Gets 11-13 towing 3k lbs

04 2500 8.1L, 285 tires, 4.10 ratio, 14 hwy empty, 9mpg city empty, 8-10 towing on flat, and 6-9 mpg towing in the hills. Get the same as empty, towing 3k lbs.

Those figures are hand calculated with towing 7-9k lbs.

'12 1500 5.3, 3.42 gears gets 19-20 mpg on the highway empty, but dropped to 12-15 towing 3000lbs on the highway.
 
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I was always told that a 1500 has a raw frame that weighs 1500 and a 2500 has a frame that weighs. ..well...2500 and so on. I could be wrong, but that and gearing give you more capacity.
 
WOW...even more info here. Thanks for all the input guys. IF i ever decide to upgrade my Tow Rig, a 2500 will def be on my hunting list from all this info with good matched setup.
i heard a few mentioned that i would like some advise on:
my 99 F150 5.4 has factory Tow Package which has the bigger rear diff, 3:55 ratio (not the best), it does have the big aux trans cooler along with the radiator trans cooler also. I've upgraded exhaust, improved the intake, and went from 265s to 245s which now the truck seems to have lots more umph and getup to it than i would expect, and averaging 16 or so around town...don't know highway but went from Boone to The Flats and Back in just under half Tank with that misfire issue and bigger tires and stock exhaust/intake pulling Jeep on 2200lb trailer (not bad if you asked me and several have highly commented on this highway mileage comparing to their Dodges)
 
I was always told that a 1500 has a raw frame that weighs 1500 and a 2500 has a frame that weighs. ..well...2500 and so on. I could be wrong, but that and gearing give you more capacity.
this is what i thought too but didn't want to sound stupid or mislead others so i never really mention it
 
Anyone with a 2500 or 3500 claiming better mileage and more power than a 1500 with the same motor is a moron. The 2500 and 3500 will be heavier and get worse mileage.
kinda what i thought but i didn't know all this info so that's what led me to start this thread to learn since i'm in the "truck" world now!
 
I was always told that a 1500 has a raw frame that weighs 1500 and a 2500 has a frame that weighs. ..well...2500 and so on. I could be wrong, but that and gearing give you more capacity.

I doubt that. It's just a series game in the badging of the trucks.

Ex: k5, k10, k20, k30, c10, c20, c30, f100, f150, f250, d50, d100, w100, d200 etc

The 1500 and non hd 2500 use the same frame to my knowledge, while the non hd 2500 gets all the better brakes suspension etc.

the 2500hd gets the 3500 frame, with softer springs.

As well, a 2500hd truck frame is taller and longer than a 2500 suburban frame. This is why 2500 trucks with the 8.1L and the duramax get the Allison transmission, yet the suburbans and avalanches with the 8.1 only got the 4L85.


Can't speak for ford or dodge in this aspect.

A good read of where the terms originated.

http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2012/0...-pickup-classes-and-where-they-came-from.html
 
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even more good info!!!! I'm sure i'm not the only one learning now lol.
 
I had an old 90 Chevy 1500 with a real strong 350 & 3:42 gears when I bought my 31ft camper. It did fine but the truck did not handle well at hwy speeds. I bought a 93 3500 with a 454 & 4:10 gears & it rides like a Cadillac with heavy loads & runs much cooler than the 1500.
 
yeah the cooling system i've taken care of already. it runs right at 175 no matter what...even coming up the mountain holding it to the floor. i'm gonna drop the clutch fan soon when i find me an electric fan that fits there properly...that huge things gotta take up at least 10hp
 
yeah the cooling system i've taken care of already. it runs right at 175 no matter what...even coming up the mountain holding it to the floor. i'm gonna drop the clutch fan soon when i find me an electric fan that fits there properly...that huge things gotta take up at least 10hp

If that is true, then you are wasting a lot of potential power. It needs to run warmer to allow for a more complete combustion. At 175 operating temp, you are dumping more fuel than at say 200-210.
How do you know it's at 175? Those have C-H gauges without numerical indicators?
 
I can't speak for all operating systems, but when I changed from a stock 195* thermostat to a 160* thermostat, my A/F ratio didn't change a bit according to my wideband logged through HP Tuners. Instead of running at 198 degrees with a stock thermostat, I now run 176-180 degrees. If definitely helps control any issues with detonation you may have and warms up much faster. The gauge may say 175, but I'd bet it's a little warmer than that.

The manual capillary gauge in my CUCV says it runs about 160 degrees, but it has a factory thermostat in it and it's a 195 degree. I just attributed it to the gauge probe being in the driver's side rear of the cylinder head...and it's a cheap SunPro brand coolant temp gauge.
 
It starts to open at 160, I usually see temps via the VCM scanner up around 176-180. So, it dropped 20 degrees or so. In my case it helps quite a bit. Compression is 10.5:1 and it's cammed with quite a bit of total timing advance. It also helped with the disappearing oil trick this motor was pulling! I finally figured that it must have been vaporizing oil and sucking it through the engine somehow....although the PCV and throttle body vent hose were both mostly dry.

I managed to find a stock application 160* thermostat for LS engines that is only like 18 bucks instead of paying for a "name brand" one that is 50 or 60 bucks. That made it that much more feasible!
 
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