'86 K5 wandering steering

Subzilla

Subzilla

Test Driver
Joined
Jun 13, 2011
Location
Triad - Mt. Pleasant, Concord & Georgeville
Added 2" BDS lift to the mall crawling K5 and had some unstable steering. It's not really bumpsteer, just won't hold a straight line down the road and just seems weird ever since the lift. Replaced the worn out draglink, snugged up the steering box (sector shaft had some minor play) and have checked the other tie rod connections. Ball joints are not too old. I added the ORD steering box brace kit 10 years ago and have checked for cracked frame here. I kept the factory steering arm which makes the drag link angle quite excessive in my opinion - especially when you max out the steering wheel - the pitman arm rotates further up making the drag link angle worse. Everything I read says the drag link should be level to the ground AND that a steering correction is not needed until you get to a 4" lift. I'm thinking I need to make this angle better with a raised steering arm. Any thoughts?
 
Just change it to cross over steering and be done.
Cheaper, easier, safer, no brainer
 
Did you check toe in and caster?
 
It's probably a mix between caster, toe, and the drag link angle. I'm betting it's mostly the angle of the drag link. Either get a drop pitman arm or a raised steering arm to get that draglink back to a normal angle. I'm not sure I'd go through the trouble of crossover on a DD, plus I'm not sure that there's enough room with only 2" of lift. Not to mention, you'd have to machine/swap out the passenger's side knuckle and all that jazz.

Personally, the easiest thing would be a drop pitman arm. The 4wd steering boxes have a pinch bolt setup and that pitman arm will slide right off the sector shaft. I bought the one I had years ago from ORD.

If you think about it, the factory front springs are a negative arch...so a 2" spring probably gave you more than 2" of lift up front. Hence, the drag link issues.
 
Heim's eliminate the need for any knuckle modification.
You can x-over a K5 for under $100.
Cheaper than the $79 drop pitman arm..

And yeah you can do it with 2" (or even no lift if you are creative).

While the pitman arm does use a pinch bolt, in my experience you are 50/50 on goobering up the steering box by the time you get it off.
 
Ron said:
Heim's eliminate the need for any knuckle modification.
You can x-over a K5 for under $100.
Cheaper than the $79 drop pitman arm..

And yeah you can do it with 2" (or even no lift if you are creative).

While the pitman arm does use a pinch bolt, in my experience you are 50/50 on goobering up the steering box by the time you get it off.
Click to expand...

Just curious to how you're doing that? Any pictures of this setup?
 
I'm curious about how to do crossover unless you can bolt a steering arm to the top of the knuckle...unless you do an "Y" setup like Jeeps use and they're usually not all that great unless you can keep the tie rod ends from rolling and giving you that dead spot. Perhaps you stack the heims on the passenger's side, but that puts a lot of stress on a single shear setup.

I'm not saying you can't do it....but less than 100 bucks? You'd need 4 heims, bolts, a tie rod, and a drag link. The threads are different between heims and tie rod ends/drag links so you'd have to go to 7/8-14 instead of 7/8-18. What about the steering box? How do you make it go from a front to back setup to side to side without changing the steering box or sector shaft?

For a mall crawler setup, I'd drop 80 bucks and 30 minutes and be done with it, personally. The raised steering arms are cheaper than the dropped pitman arms, but the 3 cone washers are usually far more challenging to remove when compared to the pitman arm.
 
On phone. I'll share a full write up later.
Popular older school mod on the k5 requires a 2wd steering box.
 
Croatan_Kid said:
I'm curious about how to do crossover unless you can bolt a steering arm to the top of the knuckle...unless you do an "Y" setup like Jeeps use and they're usually not all that great unless you can keep the tie rod ends from rolling and giving you that dead spot. Perhaps you stack the heims on the passenger's side, but that puts a lot of stress on a single shear setup.

I'm not saying you can't do it....but less than 100 bucks? You'd need 4 heims, bolts, a tie rod, and a drag link. The threads are different between heims and tie rod ends/drag links so you'd have to go to 7/8-14 instead of 7/8-18. What about the steering box? How do you make it go from a front to back setup to side to side without changing the steering box or sector shaft?

For a mall crawler setup, I'd drop 80 bucks and 30 minutes and be done with it, personally. The raised steering arms are cheaper than the dropped pitman arms, but the 3 cone washers are usually far more challenging to remove when compared to the pitman arm.
Click to expand...

I kind of agree...but steering is kind of important to be "tight". The wander is probably the result of a caster change from switching to new springs, I bet the caster is closer to zero degrees now. This will also change the toe a little bit due to the axle being "rolled" one direction or the other. If you have access to an angle finder check the angle on the knuckles. Ideally you'd want around seven degrees or so negative caster to aid in self-centering the wheels. If you find that it is close to zero or positive (axle rotated forward) then some degree shims are needed to get things back in order.

The other half of the wander is related to this issue of the drag link. When the vehicle is stock is rides somewhat parallel to the ground, making the action of the pitman and steering arm essentially linear front to back (neglecting for suspension movement). When you lift the vehicle that drag link starts to cant at an angle and now the forces are compound in both the horizontal and vertical planes. This makes the steering inputs non-linear and changes the steering "feel" somewhat. You have already observed that at full lock the drag link angle gets really high.

I follow Ron on his idea but executing for less than $100 is not going to happen. You will not find a cheap 2wd steering box that will be worth a crap nowadays as they probably have a pile of miles on the junkyard units and just a rebuilt box itself runs well over $100. Since it's your life at stake don't cheap out here. Since the lift is so low you can probably run the drag link straight to the passenger side knuckle and install heims top and bottom but then you have a nice big single-shear point for both at the knuckle.

Best way to fix is a true crossover steering with a steering knuckle on the passenger side and a high steer arm then install a 2wd power steering box on the frame and connect with a new drag link between then. Figure a few hundred to do this.
 
Sounds like mine (Have a SAS), ended up being the intermediate shaft. Put a borgeson shaft in, steering is tighter than my Sierra.
 
Austen said:
Sounds like mine (Have a SAS), ended up being the intermediate shaft. Put a borgeson shaft in, steering is tighter than my Sierra.
Click to expand...

True that, the flex joint could be shot. That is a cheap and easy part to replace.

Here's one on RockAuto but I am sure you can get it locally: More Information for LARES 200
 
Set the toe-in when I did the lift and have checked it again. Didn't check the caster but I should. When I installed the BDS 4" on my 83 Sub, it came with degree shims but the 2" kit did not. Will check the caster and can easily add the shims. Just checked caster....7 degrees using a level and protractor.
I didn't think about the extra costs and effort of also replacing the steering arm cones. The Pitman arm does make more sense if it will serve the same function. Will go that route. Would this put more stress (torque) on the gear box due to the arm being further away from the steering box shaft?
BTW, also inspected the flex joint....looked good.
I would also like to hear about the "cheap" x-over steering mod.

Thanks for the replies!! My 83 Sub and trail-riding 75 K5, both with a 4" lift steer better than this K5 right now....frustrating. But the beauty of these things is they are so simple to work on.
 
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