acoustic deadening garage/shop space

RatLabGuy

RatLabGuy

You look like a monkey and smell like one too
Joined
May 18, 2005
Location
Churchville, MD
So.... I've just been informed that my grinding, drilling, metal cutting etc is quite lous in the house. Big shock.
Actually I feel kind of bad b/c i intentionally wait until wife goes to bved, or son's naptime so they don't have to hear it during the day. Woops.

Anyhow, this really is no surpise, as the garage and shop are in the basement under the rooms.
Any suggestions on a good way to minimize the noise transduction? Main floor is the original hardwood, and from the basement side, the joists don't have insulation or anything between them (besides random wire, plumbing etc) so there's not much blocking it.
The joints are only 7" from the slab floor, and it's really nice to have access to the wiring/plumbing, so I'd rather not cover them w/ drywall/panleing etc.
I've considered fiberglass insulation - but that;s a catch 22. If you get the paper-faced stuff, you're not supposed to leave the paper exposed b/c it could catch fire. If you get it unfaced, thefiberglass is inevitably gonna absorb all my dust, smoke yada yada and get nasty quick.
Are there alternatives? What about some kind of matting? 300 sq ft od Dynamat would be great but cost a mint, lol.
 
cellulose, when packed TIGHT, actually does a great job at sound deadening... but it would take a lot of material (about $9/bail) and a lot of time to figure out the best way to stuff it in tight... oh, and you'd have to either put up a ceiling to encapsulate the cellulose.... could be as simple as screening, but sheetrock would be ideal...
 
Erik said:
cellulose, when packed TIGHT, actually does a great job at sound deadening... but it would take a lot of material (about $9/bail) and a lot of time to figure out the best way to stuff it in tight... oh, and you'd have to either put up a ceiling to encapsulate the cellulose.... could be as simple as screening, but sheetrock would be ideal...
Click to expand...

Right, see, if I was gonna do that, I'd just buy soem R25 fiberglass and sheetrock the ceiling. But then I'd loose the often-used height between joists and access to wires.

The joists are what, 8-10" tall? Old house so mine are pretty big. I'd thinking something I can squeeze up between them within the last 3-4" so I still retain some of the height.
 
stop
 
mine to



LOL
 
I know exactly what your need ACOUSTICAL CEILING.I do this for a living,go with 2x2 grid and vinyl covered sheetrock tile(can wash it if you need to).I would also install r-19 6'' insulation.(sound/heat)This will solve your problem and you will have unlimited access to your wiring/plumbing.(and it will look good).:beer: any ?'s call me 919-291-3665
 
I don't know how big your garage/shop area is, but what I've always done was build another interior wall about 12" in from the existing wall. Might be more than you want to spend but it does a great job of killing sound. It's worked great for me in the past building recording studios. If you really want to kill everything add a floating floor and another ceiling too, but that adds significantly more $$

Edit: nevermind....reading you original post I see you don't want to cover anything up....I got nothing
 
2mnyYotas said:
I know exactly what your need ACOUSTICAL CEILING.I do this for a living,go with 2x2 grid and vinyl covered sheetrock tile(can wash it if you need to).I would also install r-19 6'' insulation.(sound/heat)This will solve your problem and you will have unlimited access to your wiring/plumbing.(and it will look good).:beer: any ?'s call me 919-291-3665
Click to expand...

I think maybe something that is getting overlooked here is that I am concerned about my ceiling height.
In the basement, the bottom of the joists are only 7' from the slab floor.
As it is now, when moving around large/long objects, I often find myself swinging things up up between the joists.

Tile ceilings are great and all but that's another several inches height lost below the joists.

Now, if you can get me tiles that are only 14.5" that I can slide up between the joists that would be fabulous. That way I can still use some of that height.
FYI this is unfinished space, looking nice is secondary to being effective.
 
cj777 said:
Edit: nevermind....reading you original post I see you don't want to cover anything up....I got nothing
Click to expand...

Maybe I should clarify that. What I'd like to avoid is attaching any kind of covering to the bottom of the joists.
In most cases, the wiring/pipes are attached to the underside of the joists, or when it's run through them, it's a hole bored in the bottom 1-2" or so.
Mine are the old-schol 2x10 joists, so thsi means there's lots of space up in there, *above* most of the wire/pipe runs.

if I can't come up with anything else, then I will just put in insulation, then drywall or some kind of paneling. That will just be a huge pain b/c of all the stuff on the underside of the joists.

Can you get insulation with a non-flamable facing on it? E.g., plastic?
 
I'm in the exact same boat. I've been debating whether I should put some insulation between the joists or not, but it would really be a pita with all of the wiring and plumbing. Sheetrock might be a good compromise.
 
You could contact Acoustek Nonwovens in statesville and beg them for some of their sound deadening stuff. Its fireproof, and is used in the Automotive industry to cut down road noise.

Although 99% of the stuff is reground and reused..so good luck with that getting some :lol:.

as for using the paper backed insulation, maybe try covering it with peg board or something like that.
 
RatLabGuy said:
Maybe I should clarify that. What I'd like to avoid is attaching any kind of covering to the bottom of the joists.
Click to expand...

I don't think you (or your wife) will be satisfied with the sound reduction if you don't encapsulate the joists. You're not going to get a significant reduction in sound deadening without a more comprehensive approach.

If you want to cut the sound, you need sound attenuation batts in the cavity, then hang gyp on resilient channels on the ceiling. National Gypsum has a product called SoundBreak that's worth considering in place of (or in addition to) the resilient channels. It's basically two 1/4" sheets of gyp joined with a viscoelastic polymer. But then you still need to tape and mud all the joints and seal any cracks or penetrations, or the whole effort was for naught.

It's worth mentioning that the SoundBreak board is not a replacement for type X or C gyp board. Technically, you should have a continuous 5/8" fire-rated envelope between the living space and garage. That would mean one layer of 5/8" soundbreak with one layer of 5/8" type X or C applied over it.

If you get faced insulation, the facing goes toward the habitable area.
 
RatLabGuy said:
I think maybe something that is getting overlooked here is that I am concerned about my ceiling height.
In the basement, the bottom of the joists are only 7' from the slab floor.
As it is now, when moving around large/long objects, I often find myself swinging things up up between the joists.
Tile ceilings are great and all but that's another several inches height lost below the joists.
Now, if you can get me tiles that are only 14.5" that I can slide up between the joists that would be fabulous. That way I can still use some of that height.
FYI this is unfinished space, looking nice is secondary to being effective.
Click to expand...
Tiles canbe cut whatever length you need.You could install between joists if you wanted,to keep all the height you need.If you were to do one ceiling you would have to drop down 2inches below bottom of joist.You say your joists are at 7',your ceiling would be 6'10".
 
put some insulation R15. then right under that on both sides put up a strip of 1x2 that runs length wise down the joists. then cut some OSB and screw it into the 1x2.so that way your only covering up about 1/2 of your swinging space.
 
I know it would be a lot of work, but...

put the faced insulation up in there, 6 inches or so. 4 if you want to keep more room. buy some cheapy 1/4 plywood and cut to go in between joists. Screw some 3/4 strips to both sides and slide plywood up in let it lay on the 3/4 strips. Easy to pull out if needed. Areas that you don't think you will need the height, just do the same with the insulation and screw it to the bottom of the joists.
 
BigBody79 said:
put some insulation R15. then right under that on both sides put up a strip of 1x2 that runs length wise down the joists. then cut some OSB and screw it into the 1x2.so that way your only covering up about 1/2 of your swinging space.
Click to expand...

The exposed joist ends transmit a lot more noise than you realize. It would be a whole lot of work for only negligible benefit. He'd be better off to just put up insulation and call it good.
 
RatLabGuy said:
I've considered fiberglass insulation - but that;s a catch 22. If you get the paper-faced stuff, you're not supposed to leave the paper exposed b/c it could catch fire.
Click to expand...

Could be wrong, but I believe the paper (vapor barrier) side would go up AGAINST the sub-floor, leaving you with fiberglass facing your work area...

FWIW, mine is just pushed up into the joists, held by wire "clips" and stays pretty good. It shows *some* discoloration & is has been torn up in spots, but was like that when we moved in & isn't enough to worry about...

If you're worried about it getting filthy, you could cover it by stapling a layer of plastic/poly to the bottom of the joists, but then gotta worry about melting it with grinder spray...
 
Did a couple searches on decibels and the grinder is about 70 db or so.

http://books.google.com/books?id=wDKD4IggBJ4C&pg=PA464&lpg=PA464&dq=grinding+decibels&source=web&ots=foctZ8GQO4&sig=4BrdGYD0hDwjCrAn_lQxeFQD1bY#PPA465,M1

They insulate homes to reduce 25 to 35 decibels..

http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cach...pdf+75+db+insulation&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us

Drywall appears to reduce maybe 10db

http://www.isover.co.uk/article.asp?id=353

So what I am saying is this even if you get lucky and reduce it by 25db you have "Just" reduced it to the sound of normal conversation....still pretty loud?

I would say reduce any grinding to non sleeping times when possible

Other than that, your best bet appears to be insulation, fiberglass side down and then i would cover the joists with plastic on the bottom to keep out filth if needed. But I have seen some nasty basements and the fiberglass looked fine to me?

Or...buy a new house with a garage workshop out back...heh! :)
 
If he were to do gyp on resilient channels with an insulated cavity, that's around 45-50 STC. SoundBreak board would push that up another 10 points. That's in the neighborhood of a 50db drop.

Grinder would be at least 85-90db.
 
The stuff used in the music industry for soundproofing studios (looks like square egg cartons)and such is good stuff. It is not cheap though.... Similar situation as yours, guy had a full blown studio in his basement. Upstairs you could still hear the some things, but much much quieter. You could possibly get more info on these at music123.com or musiciansfriend.com.
 
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