ADVICE WANTED/NEEDED

Granny

Granny

One day at a time...
Joined
Jun 12, 2007
Location
Cabarrus County (Rimertown)
I have been in a rut for some time now wanting a little better ride than ole Granny, but not wanting to let the old girl go... thus I've gotten nowhere.

The fact is I am used to Granny, she does well for me, and always has. Someone commented to me once that Granny was probably more capable than her driver, and that person was probably right. So...this brings me up to my latest brainstorm, and I need some help to figure out if it's even feasible.

For reference, pic here: http://home.windstream.net/ezduzit/photos/granny_02.jpg

After the frame stretch, I have about 20" where the little platform/bed is on the rear. I have come up with the idea that if I would replace the CJ-5 tub with either a CJ-7 or Wrangler tub I could gain the inside room that I really want/need, and also the larger doors, some creature comforts, etc. I don't know exactly how much longer the tubs are. I do believe a CJ-7 tub will bolt right up to my existing front end, but I am not sure if a Wranger tub will or not. If it would work, then I would most likely look for a used hardtop to fit it, and there seems to be plenty of them for sale at about any price a person wants to pay. If this would work out, I would like then to eventually give ole Granny a military look. Am I nuts, or is this reasonable?... and try to be nice about it! :)
 
Sounds good to me, I don't really know enough about the tubs, but I bet if you hollar at ol jeeps he can probaly tell you.
 
I like your thinking! A Wrangler tub should work just fine, finish it up with a military theme, give you some more room, creature comforts and a new look!
 
Don - This may not be the answer you want to hear but I think you need to save your pennies and slide into a newer TJ. (97-99)

The tops are great. The suspension /ride is nice and even mildly built would go the same places your going now.
 
To GubNi: I'm just not interested in a buggy... not what I want.

To sleepinc: I'll hold off a while... he may respond anyway.

To Mike: Yeah, you already went through this with me. Part of me wants to move on, but the other part doesn't want to let go... and I know you are right on all counts. :)

To JC: I know the Krawler pretty well, but lack some on the body details. Did you mix and match CJ & Wrangler parts on it? I guess my only real concern is whether or not they will fit up properly. If I do this, I would like it to end up looking like it started out with a little bit of planning. :)

I will also add: Granny has a basically new engine (a strong 258), and the driveline components are the right stuff. If I go to another vehicle, I'll have to start all over there. I already know, and like, what I have. I mainly just want a little bigger cab, and the next hardtop will be easily removable. My old aluminum hardtop is the main reason I have avoided trying places such as the waterfall, etc. I know if I would roll over the top would be destroyed. I have already straightened it more times than I care to remember.

Thanks, and keep the info coming guys. I really want to be certain about the body parts matching up.
 
CJ-7 tubs and YJ Wrangler tubs are closee to identical. You would have no problem overcoming the slight differences....rear 2 sets of body mounts are slighty different locations, the rear most set (on rear crossmember) are outboard 1-2" more than a CJ-7. The second from the rear set are fwd/rear 1-2". CJ-7 tub has cutouts in the tub to windshield cowl for defrost ducts thru the windshield frame; YJ defroster is totally withing the modern-style dashboard "module". Then smaller details like fuel filler cutout is on opposite sides, firewall holes, etc.
 
Don, Granny started out at 84" wheel base. You lengthened her 20", so you should have 104" wheel base. A stock Cj-7 or Square headlight Wrangler is 94" wheelbase. So, putting a CJ or YJ tub on your frame, you will still have 10" more wheelbase than tub. Assuming you were trying to keep the center of the axle in the original wheel well. But with some tub trimming, it's easy to keep the differential under the tub. Spring choice will help with this. Or, if you keep the springs you are running now, because of the length of your springs you will still be under the tub. JC is using Cherokee springs if I remember correctly. Longer springs, but Spring center bolt is closer to the rear of the spring. and longer, thus moving the wheel base back. Spring shackle will be located at the back of the frame, with no frame extending past the mount.
As far as CJ-5 tub vs a CJ or YJ inside, your total length difference is in the front seat area. For me, it gives me more leg room, and keeps the steering wheel out of my gut. For you, not being as tall as I am, it would allow you to have a seat in there that you could recline for more comfort.
Dash forward will pretty much keep everything in the same place, as far as that goes, you could keep the same fenders, hood, and grill. As RenegadeT mentioned, there is some differences in the body mounts. Easy to over come, and fab new body mounts though.
Another option, and the best of both worlds, would to obtain a scrambler tub, A CJ-8 has a wheelbase of 103" You would still gain the 10" in the seat area, as well as another 9" behind the seat for storage and so on. You can get a top for those in the rag top version or the hard top. Those are not as easy to find, but I have seen then here and there. Another option there is to run a half top, in either the rag top or hard top. Full cage is more difficult though because of having to go through the top, but the option there is to do a type of EXO cage where the cage goes over the top. Which would be the better choice in my opinion anyway, because the top for the CJ-7, 8, or YJ is made from fiberglass and would not take a hit like the metal top Granny has now.
Hope this helps.
 
Alright! This is the kind of info I am looking for. :)

The main concern was a new tub bolting up to my existing front end (what will, what won't). From your info, that hurdle is pretty well cleared. I expected the body mounts to be different, not a big concern. I never considered the heater, etc., but don't see that as a big issue either. I would probably avoid the scrambler idea simply because of availability, and the fact that top matching would be far more difficult. I would definitely want to do do a full cage (inside) leaving the option of removing the hard top in warm weather.

From what you guys are telling me, I think I will start looking for a Wrangler tub (more of 'em) and go slow from there. Thanks again for the info! :)
 
OK, I'm still kicking a dead horse, but I think Yager is going to win the advice award on this one. I sort of want a Wrangler, but I have no doubt that an XJ would fit the bill better. As of now, I am shopping for something reasonably clean as I would prefer to do my own body damage & seat destruction, and I don't want any sawzall specials. I know if I find an XJ I will have make some modifications. I will want lockers and a winch for certain, and I am sure a few other things. I will assume the stock axles in an XJ are weak. What are my best options for upgrading them? I really don't know much about these vehicles so any other info/advice will be appreciated.
 
upnover said:
Granny started out at 84" wheel base. You lengthened her 20", so you should have 104" wheel base. A stock Cj-7 or Square headlight Wrangler is 94" wheelbase. So, putting a CJ or YJ tub on your frame, you will still have 10" more wheelbase than tub.
Click to expand...

You need a Jeepster (101")/Commando(104") tub brother... :D
 
JC said:
Budget boost (coil spring spacers and blocks), 31s-33s, winch and hit it!
Click to expand...

skip the blocks, go Add-A-Leaf. XJ springs are very soft, won't last when you hit it. Axle wrap was my downfall @the ECORS-Flats race, stock on 2" blocks/spacers.
 
You guys are going to think I'm nuts! I'm beginning to wonder myself, but after going back and forth for weeks/months over this, I think I have finally decided that I just may be driving a TJ before too much longer. An XJ would undoubtedly have more interior room for hauling grandkids, etc., but I sincerely believe I might just be happier with a TJ as I will be able to remove the top occasionally, and the body style is more like what I have been used to for years. I appreciate all the help & input! :beer:
 
Why would you do that when you have a perfectly good drivetrain that is set up to do anything you would ever want to do, that is in excellent shape, that you can't sell for a fraction of what you have in it? Keep Granny and get an XJ!
 
JC said:
Why would you do that when you have a perfectly good drivetrain that is set up to do anything you would ever want to do, that is in excellent shape, that you can't sell for a fraction of what you have in it? Keep Granny and get an XJ!
Click to expand...

x2

also minor thing, Xj doors are very very small IMO. Hard to stick your head out to check out upcoming terrain and hard to get in and out in a jippy. You may want to check that out if you see my xj or someone elses.
 
well I'm gonna voice my opinion about a Tj. This past weekend,I wheeled my 2001 wrangler up at Callalente.It was the yellow one running around with 3 inches of lift on 31 inch mt's. I'm 43 years old with the wear and tear of 26 years of humping pipe all day for a utility company.I'm the foreman but I still work as hard as I did when 21. The point is I've got issues with my back and joints. My usual ride is my stock 50 willys M38.It has hard cusions to sit on and none on the backs. I'm riding on 10 leaf spring packs.My tires are old school bias mudgrips.I have no flex and no give. So now I will give you the comparison between the two rigs.

I buckled myslef in and hit the gravel road and before I got to where I wanted to strike off up hill,I had to undo the seatbelt for traveling.The seatbelt held me in the seat so tight that I couldn't float as the wrangler rolled over the rocks.Every bump transfered to my lower back and it soon became uncomfy to ride like that.The rest of the weekend was unbuckled and sitting way foreward in the seat to float with the roll of the body.
The excessive roll of the body on the suspension took a while to get used to also. I had disco'ed the front sway bar and had aired down to 20 pounds.No way would she handle as good as the willys at speed. I raced Nellie at the unf race in 2008 and I tell you,I drove the wrangler to town and it was squirrelly.
I got a friend who has a lifted wrangler.I think he is on 37/38 inch tall tires with long arm suspension and a atlas transfercase.Nice seats with good belts to hold you in.His wife will ride in ole Nellie Belle right now compared to his wrangler.She has for several years now. He wishes he could find another frame so he could go back to a lower stance on smaller tires.

My question is if there is anything you can do to Granny to bring her around to what you need now?I drive my wrangler alot on the highways going to reenactments and such and really I can't tell that much difference in the ride quality between the two.A bump is a big bump when you have a short wheel base.
 
I really appreciate the comments and feedback guys. ord.sgt.26NC, your comments sure bring some new questions to my drawing board. Really good points... ThanX!

For the time being, I am not going to do anything. My past history seemingly holds a pattern of starting major projects during the hot months of July & August. This year I plan to be a little bit smarter and break that pattern. I have a couple offers to ride in, and drive, a Wrangler during the upcoming URE workday on the 17th. As I need to do some regular maintenance on Granny anyway before the Toy Run, I may just leave her sit at home and accept those offers. I really am torn between three options. The first, putting a CJ-7 or Wrangler tub on Granny as she is, and giving her the military look as I mentioned in the first place. The second, is the idea of a Cherokee which would give me a vehicle that I could lock the doors on if in town, have more room for camping gear, grandkids, etc., and some creature comforts. And third, the Wrangler idea. This should be an easy thing to decide, but it's obvious that I am having one hell of a time with it.

For now, or at least until the weather cools off, I am going to let this go dormant. I'm spinning my wheels nonstop, and getting absolutely nowhere.

Thanks to all for your ideas, thoughts, and support! :)
 
Finally a conclusion... this thing is settled! First of all, since my last post, Granny has gotten a new paint job, and I think she looks pretty good. Hopefully, depending upon the weather, she will model her new look at The Flats on the 24th. This past Saturday (17th), I rode in, and drove, a late-model Rubicon about all day, and there were definitely some things about the Rubicon that I liked better than Granny. The ride across the wash-boarded areas of the Forest Roads was definitely better in the Rubicon. On the trails though, I prefer the way Granny feels. The AC in the Rubicon was definitely nice, and Granny can't compete in that department. I felt the cab of the Rubicon was much more cramped, and actually less roomy, than Granny's cab. As was mentioned in another post, it was somewhat difficult to move around freely in the cab of the Rubicon. I experienced that same feeling. In Granny, it is much easier for me to squirm around, look out the back, etc. Another point I noticed right off was that I can definitely see out of Granny much better than I could out of the Rubicon. It may just be seating position, but I also felt that I sat a good bit lower in the Rubicon as compared to Granny. I did this comparison with an open mind, and I really do like the Rubicon... but, it also made me finally realize that what I have isn't too bad either. So... Granny is going to stay!

Do I feel a little bit foolish for posting all this? Yeah... somewhat.
Am I sorry I did it? No... not at all. I have learned much from this.
Am I going senile? Probably... but don't worry, you'll get your chance too! :lol:

Anyway, thanks again to all who offered advice, posted comments, etc.

Yager: you can give me hell next time you see me! :flipoff2:

That's all folks! :beer:
 
You ran into the same issues I did with my wrangler vs M38. Visibilty isn't all that great with the wrangler since i have a low hood line and lay the windshield down when i drive it.I sit up high in the seat and can see over the hood yet the wrangler is so soft,I sit down in it. The Willys is a more stable rig over obstacles because of the non lifted height and she handles like a go cart on trails at speed.The wrangler isn't as stable and I don't trust it as much. Heater,ac,and rain protection well,the willys was built for war time necessity and the wrangler is very well refined for that.I think as loing as my back can take it and my daughters are willing to change my diapers,I'll stick with ole Nellie Belle as my standard trail rig for a very long time to come.
 
Hey Don!

From an Old Jeep guy...

TJs are wayyyyy better than old CJs. Better suspension, better ride, AC (!), wider, longer, more agile. Name it... its better.

But it aint an old Jeep. Nothing feels like one. Simple to work on. (easy to trail fix) Cheap to own. Durable (...I would know! LOL!) Plain ole fun to own and fun to drive. Challenges are easy to find...bout everything offroad is a challenge!

Wanna do something cool to Granny? What about find a second tub, cut the rear off and add it on to Granny to create an "early model" cj5 based "scrambler"?

(Almost did this to my new Jeep project!):rolleyes:
 
Granny said:
I rode in, and drove, a late-model Rubicon about all day, and there were definitely some things about the Rubicon that I liked better than Granny.
Click to expand...

Was it a TJ or JK? It sounds like a 4dr jk would really work good for you but I do like the idea of putting an LJ tub on Granny to give you more room.
 
I'd sell it and get a Toyota, more room for those stone maps and the torches that you use for night riding! LOLOLOL
 
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