Another question about MIG Welders

rodnocker

rodnocker

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 15, 2011
Location
Clayton NC
Needs to be able to weld bumpers, roll cages and other 4x4 fabrication (axle trusses, gussets, body armor).

I know brand can make a difference in durability of a machine, but right now I'm wanting the numbers.

What amperage am I looking at needing for these types of welds?

Also, what duty cycle do I need?

I realize that if I needed 120 amps for a weld, 100% duty cycle at 120 amps would be ideal, but what is realistic? I understand that welding tubing in a roll cage uses shorter welds than welding a plate bumper, and therefore tubing would have more downtime while moving from weld to weld.

My main concern is to get the amperage right. I want to make sure my machine can make a safe weld. If that's at 20% or 80%, I can adjust the time it takes me to make a weld but I want to make sure the work I do is safe and reliable.

I hope I've explained what I'm asking for clearly. I know what I'm looking for, hope y'all can help.
 
There are so many things that go into making a "safe and reliable" weld; amperage of the machine is just one part of those things. Fitment, surface preparation, cleanliness, skill of the welder, quality of consumables, type of metal, welding environment and more are all a part of making a "safe and reliable" weld.

I have seen PJ weld with a 100 amp Linclon 100 in a campground at Harlan and seen the welds hold up to anything Harlan could dish out. I have seen welds done with a 220 volt, 300 amp Miller in a shop break on the street.

Short answer to what you want to know, in my opinion any of the name brand 140 amp rated machines will get the job done just fine.
 
Any name brand 220 volt mig is gonna do 95% of what you want. Don't get hung up on numbers and specs. The smaller case welders that you can pick up may hit the duty cycle, but doing 4x4 work it's not like you are welding for hours at the time.
 
I found a Century 160 mig with tank for under $400.00. As far as I can tell, it looks pretty good and has a rated output of 130 amps @30%

Would something like that be good to get?
 
^no. not near the quality or output. Hobart would be the only thing I would look at other than Miller and Lincoln.

Esab, MQpower, and Thermal Arc all quality but odd and quirky for parts and consumables. And Airco was really good stuff but hasn't been made for years.
 
Well since it kind if pertains to the thread would be ok to weld spring hangers and other suspension components on with a 120v welder? I'm looking at getting a newer welder and was wondering if I needed it or not.


Sent from my mobile Toyota base using Tapatalk
 
JC answered that already so to speak. Less amperage generally means better prep and technique. However big welders don't cover big eggos and mistakes. Like he said its 90% prep and skill 10% the welder. That being said Miller makes a 120/220 single phase dual voltage machine I'd use to do most anything on a vehicle.

Clean, bevel, and prep. Preheat if possible and use good technique. Do some destructive testing on simallar thicknesses and positions on welds. Weld then break examine you'll learn alot from it. Welds should never fail. The parent material should tear or rip away before any bead fails. Thats the way weldments and the filler has been designed. Its simple most Mild steel has a threshold of 36 thousand psi before it tears as tested for tensile. This at its given test diameter on a destructive tester. Pure weldment tested to "proof" filler for common wire is 70 thousand psi. The dilluted weldment in a joint is a blend of two. How well blended is up to you. So done right a weld should not ever fail before the surounding part.
 
Maybe I shouldn't have, but to me it seemed a good price at 375.00 with tank so I went ahead and bought it. I got a receipt and the guy told me it had a 30 day warranty. Will have to wait until Saturday to wire up a 220 outlet in the garage, but then I'll do some welding with it and see how it does.

I figure if nothing else, I can throw it on craigslist and get my money or a little more back.

IMG_1116.jpg
IMG_1115.jpg
IMG_1117.jpg
 

Attachments

  • IMG_1115.jpg
    IMG_1115.jpg
    130.8 KB · Views: 287
Redneck92 said:
Well since it kind if pertains to the thread would be ok to weld spring hangers and other suspension components on with a 120v welder? I'm looking at getting a newer welder and was wondering if I needed it or not.


Sent from my mobile Toyota base using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
It is on the very edge of a 110v's capability to weld 1/4" steel to a ~1/8" frame. Like someone said earlier preparation of the metal is extremely important. You'd need to completely remove all paint, rust and mill scale and then bevel the 1/4" plate. (This should be common practice for all welding but is much more important with a 110v machine)
I'd also recommend using flux core wire not solid to weld .25 plate.

I have a millermatic DVI (dual voltage input). It's a larger body , higher duty cycle 200 amp machine that I can plug into 110 or 220. I've plugged it into a standard outlet a few times just to see what it'd do and was amazed when it very nicely butt welded 2 pieces of 3/8 together. I have also used many other 110 machines in the past from dirt cheap Harbor Freight and Campbell Hausfeld to Lincoln and Miller. The best advise I can give you is to buy a quality machine ie. Miller or Lincoln. Watch Craigslist, I see tons of machines on their guys want to get rid of that have been hardly used.


Sent from the MarsFab Off Road mobile response unit.
 
I've done some pretty crazy stuff with a 110v miller while the 220v is down. Like everybody is saying, prep is key. I also never go huge with my wire on the 110. Partially because of amperage, mostly for versatility. I usually stay .03 or .023 for sheet metal. I need to fix my 220v. Lol
 
rodnocker said:
Maybe I shouldn't have, but to me it seemed a good price at 375.00 with tank so I went ahead and bought it. I got a receipt and the guy told me it had a 30 day warranty. Will have to wait until Saturday to wire up a 220 outlet in the garage, but then I'll do some welding with it and see how it does.

I figure if nothing else, I can throw it on craigslist and get my money or a little more back.

View attachment 54882View attachment 54883View attachment 54884
Click to expand...
I actually like the way a century machine welds. I think they are one company that has a bad rap that shouldn't. Other than parts being a little hard to get, I think you'll really like it. And when I say parts I don't mean consumables I mean things that "could go bad" like the wire feeder motor or the control board. Tips for that machine should be the same as tweco and the century's I've messed with have a push on nozzle that interchanges with the lower end Lincoln's.


Sent from the MarsFab Off Road mobile response unit.
 
Actually in the picture it looks like you may have a tweco mini gun which is what I use on my machines and love!


Sent from the MarsFab Off Road mobile response unit.
 
Ok that's good to know, I'm still pretty new to welding. I know a few techniques but I know there's a lot more to it. I was mainly looking at a Hobart 140 handler, the funds aren't able to get anything much larger. Thanks for the info guys, sorry for the hijack.


Sent from my mobile Toyota base using Tapatalk
 
Honestly, I think you should have went with a AC/DC stick welder.

You had no mention of any light gauge/body work only heavier metal welding.

Stick welding isn't as cool as MIG or TIG. But it gets the job done.
I would love to have a MIG welder but to get one that will weld 1/4" plus with ease is $$$.

Just food for thought for others that may look at this thread.

FYI: Welding like you write (ie flat from left to right) is pretty easy, it is all of the out of position stuff that gets hard.
Get the feel for it on the flat, then practice the out of position stuff, ALOT. I've had to go through great lengths to get stuff flat to weld it because my Out of Postion stinks.
 
I actually had thought about the possibilities of stick. You have the advantages of no gas, normally a cheaper machine for same or more amps, and it's pretty easy to weld. Set the amperage to the metal and the rod and go to welding. The main reason I went with MIG is, well, to be honest, I like MIG welding. Also with a MIG welder, in the future I can get a spool gun and weld aluminum as well.

Way back in the dawn of time (25 years ago) I started welding and brazing with an OxyAcet setup in college. I then progressed over to stick welding and got pretty good at it.
 
rodnocker said:
Also with a MIG welder, in the future I can get a spool gun and weld aluminum as well.
Click to expand...

With a stick all you have to do is grab a rod to weld aluminum.
 
David D said:
With a stick all you have to do is grab a rod to weld aluminum.
Click to expand...

I have heard of stick welding aluminum, but I have never done it or seen it done. You can also weld aluminum with an Oxygen/Acetylene setup as well. Some of the research I have done and some examples I have seen even show better penetration and a cleaner weld with gas welding than TIG. However gas does require much more prep and is a much slower process than TIG. Not to mention that all of these things could be done with a TIG machine as well, but that is WAY out of my price range right now.

A stick welding setup is probably on the horizon. Once I get to that though, it will probably be a gas/fuel driven system on a trailer so I can do remote work as well as use it out on the farm.

TIG is also on the horizon, but that is to far out right now to even see.

The main reason I went with MIG is that is what I am comfortable with right now, and I believe that welding with what you are comfortable with and confident in, is key to producing better and safer welds.
 
Back
Top