Any Small Engine Techs?

RobMcBee

RobMcBee

Slow n easy when you're not gettin greasy....
Joined
Jan 12, 2009
Location
Fort Mill / Indian Land SC
Hey guys,
I got a customer that has a whole house generator that runs on natural gas. It's supposed to do a weekly test run, but every time it tries to start up it just turns over a few times then shuts down. If he manually tries it it takes quite a few tries, but will eventually start and run. He wanted me to look at it, but I dont have a clue about natural gas engines. He is an older retired gentleman living on a fixed income so I figured I'd ask around and see if anyone had any suggestions or if anyone in the CLT/Ft Mill area would want to look at it and maybe make a lil side money.

Thanks,
Rob
 
Rob,

Has it ran in the past and has a new problem or is it a new installaiton?

NG generators require a very specific (and low) pressure along with a high volume (comparatively) 90% of the time on new installations if we dont hold the gas company's hand they put the wrong regulator in there.

Im tied up and a long way away today.

If thats not it and it is an existing install, get me a make and model and I can at a aminimum get you a service manual and maybe provide phone support
 
Thanks Ron, It is an existing install that has just started doing it. He says that in the warmer weather it never as a problem, just when its cold out and he fears he'll need it the most. I wont be able to get back over there till maybe tomorrow but I will get you the Make and Model (would have been smart to do that in the first place).
 
I honestly thought this thread was about Toyotas :flipoff2:
 
Hey @Ron,

It is a Generac 12KW . I couldnt find a model # number but I found an item # (probably the same) and a serial #

Item # 0044563
Serial# 4017069

Got a little more info from him too. He has had it for 10 years but has never had it serviced. He did have another guy come and look at it recently and he changed out the plugs but did nothing else. I told him that I thought that you worked on these type things and he asked me to find out if you would be interested in servicing it and how much you would charge. Below are some pics and a video of it trying to start and backfiring too. (I didnt know it was backfiring previously)

IMAG1464.jpg IMAG1465.jpg IMAG1466.jpg IMAG1467.jpg

you cant hear it as well in the video but it is backfiring




If you have any other questions (if I can answer them) call me @ 828-406-5295

Thanks again
Rob
 
first off, an engine is an engine, they all run the same, the difference is the fuel and the way it is delivered. ( there are minor variations for the different fuels, but lets keep it simple ) I see a lot of people get caught up in that it runs on XXX fuel, and LP engine will and does run on gasoline, same as an NG engine.

go to the basics , air/fuel/spark

I've not heard of any sudden air loss events in the SC/NC border areas, and you're still breathing.

You've got air.

Does it have spark?

Is it getting fuel ? is it getting enough fuel ? or too much fuel ?

listening to the video, at the very end, I hear a squeal, this could be fuel blowing by the diaphragm, possibly indicating the fuel pressure is excessive (unregulated) which is a fuel flooding condition. IF there is a ball valve at the gen base, shut it off, crank over a few times to clear out excess, then crank and just crack the valve, it may start and run now ( it may not ) can you smell fuel at all ?

LP and NG systems operate very similar, one requiring more pressure/flow than the other. I see fuel regulators blow out with with extreme temperature swings, the internal plastic/rubber parts fail due to age mostly, they don't have to be used much at all.
 
Yuck.
I don't work on them unfortunately but I do sell and design them.
One thing g you've posted jumps out, did the problem exist before the service?
If not ng is pretty picky about plugs.

I always laugh at the air\fire\fuel line. It leaves out timing and compression. Light a bon fire in the back yard, pour gallons of gas in the front and blow all the air yta want. An engine ain't running. Lol. But the root point remains.

I really hate what I'm about to say, but at 10 years that particular piece of equipment has outlived its design criteria life. Not to say it can't be fixed, but its the Daewoo of automobiles. Early KIAs looks at it and say, glad we aren't that crappy.
That said I can get it fixed for ya (if its repairable) for little to nothing let me make some calls in the am.
 
Ron said:
Yuck.
always laugh at the air\fire\fuel line. It leaves out timing and compression. Light a bon fire in the back yard, pour gallons of gas in the front and blow all the air yta want. An engine ain't running. Lol. But the root point remains.
Click to expand...

BASICS <--- those don't change. possible other causes ? absolutely

Appears to be a B&S Vanguard V-Twin ( yuck ), timing is possible, but not likely, lack of compression is a possibility, I did hear a slight muffled pop, collapsed internals of muffler could cause a no start, if it can't get out, it can't bring any in either. mouse nest in air filter ( mice LOVE air filters ) clogging up the intake, it's an outdoor appliance, entirely possible

OP said it starts and runs when weather was warmer, points me to a possible fuel issue, not enough or too much fuel? dunno, fouled plugs ? possible, fuel cut off solenoid flakey or not getting reliable power ? possible

dozens of different causes, start with the basics and work from there.

OP's statement of not knowing anything about NG engines has him hesitant to dive into it, when the reality is, the engine itself is hardly different than whats on his lawnmower.

I'm 200miles away, hardly conveinent to trot over and check it out ( if I were about 180miles closer, Id have offered ), but why not offer some ideas on things to look at and possibly moral support ?

back to watching midget wrestling now....
 
HAHAHA you guys are nuts, Oil level is good (first thing i checked), but it does need to be changed. No Mice in the air filter or carb, actually looks pristine in there. The new plugs were an attempt to fix the problem and are the same plug as what was originally installed. 10Yrs ? Really? Is that the expected service live of one of these. Wow.
Ok back on subject, I do know an engine is an engine, but as far as air fuel ratios for LP/NG, regulators, and what plugs to use. Im lost. My hesitation comes from "I dont wanna screw it up any worse". Just trying to get a lil education on the subject before jumping in both feet. LOL Sure I could google it. (and I have) But most of the time the advice I get off here is pretty solid while Google has conflicting info. The exhaust is free flowing and doesnt smell overly strong. I'll try turning off the ball valve and bleeding off the pressure. Then try restarting and go from there. Is there anyway of testing the regulator? Or what regulator should be in use?

Please dont stop with the suggestions though, in case I forget or miss something.

Thanks for the help
 
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