Bent housing?

MtnYJ

MtnYJ

CFSJC Member
Joined
Apr 6, 2006
Location
Asheville
I'm working on a '93 YJ, MORE stubby shackle reversal, SOA with 2" Rubicon Express springs, Waggy Dana 44 front. I have a rear mounted tie rod. I'm trying to work through some severe death wobble. All the ball joints are new, non-adjustable, the TREs are new "1-ton" Chevys. I don't have shocks installed yet. I can't seem to get the same caster measurement on both sides, the driver's side is 8 degrees, and the passenger's side is 10 degrees. Is there a reason for differing caster other than a bent housing? I'm assuming a bent housing would be the cause of my death wobble. I'm taking my caster measurements from the machined surface of the flat tops with the wheel turned straight. Any help is greatly appreciated...
 
Now I'm thinking... are the threaded bushings that screw into the upper "C" where the ball joints mount for alignment purposes?
 
show pics of how u are trying to measure caster i cant possibly see 10 deg. unless the pinion is pointing way down. also not having any shocks does not help the way its going to drive i dont see how you felt safe to drive at any speed to even know it has death wobble.
 
I don't have any pictures handy. I didn't feel safe to drive at any speed really, the wobble is at slow speeds. I know the absence of shocks doesn't help the handling, but I wouldn't expect that to cause the wobble. The pinion is pointed up at 4 degrees. I'm headed to an alignment shop next week to have them check my caster, and the rest of the alignment. I was just trying to collect some preliminary info...
 
MtnYJ said:
Now I'm thinking... are the threaded bushings that screw into the upper "C" where the ball joints mount for alignment purposes?
Click to expand...
Not unless its an IFS Ford, those are for properly preloading the new ball joints. They adjust up and down making the distance between the balljoints increase or decrease. Its like setting bearing preload. Its also a common reason the set "after stock" for some don't last. Read IMPROPER instalation here. As for your housing. Were the flatops done by a reputable machinist? Were all the mating sufaces completely clean. If everything is a go here sounds like a twist in the tube (i'd think that would be really rare).
 
One another note. Are you measuring negative or positive? If the C's are pointed foward at the top and the knuckle is steering into the ground, thats definately a problem. It'll dive and hunt all over the place. Your tow in will cause wandering to. Check that one tire isn't overly or under towed in.
 
mileshigh said:
i want to say someone sells adjustable balljoints for the c's to adjust caster
Click to expand...

I found "Caster Correctors" from a company called "The Scout Ranch" on Offroaders.com. I don't know if they'll work for the Waggy front end or not.

The machine work was done by a reputable machine shop, all surfaces were clean.

The caster is most definitely set in the correct direction, top ball joint is behind the bottom ball joint, IE the knuckles are tilted back.

I'm headed to an alignment shop next week to have everything checked on a machine before I go as far as to change the housing...
 
when u get the alignment post up the printout. i just thought with the shackle reversal it needs to have stands under axle and make sure vehicle is level as to how it will be going dorn the road that will throw the # way off. take some spring wedges with u to adjust the caster while its their . and also if the camber is out a few deg. i have used single edge razor blades behind the axle stub to correct it, just make sure they are stainless or they wont last long. try to get about 5 deg. caster,0 camber on driver,1 deg pos. camber on pass.and 1/8" toe in. if u cant get the caster to match shoot for 3 and 5.
 
I had the weight of the Jeep on jackstands at ride height when I set the caster, so I should be good as far as compensating for the shackle reversal. Without doing that the stubby brackets would have certainly messed it up big time, as perches are not parallel to the ground because of the new leaf spring angle.

I'm aiming for 8 degrees of caster instead of 5. All the research I have found has people setting 8 degrees with a SOA and getting good results. I really hope my death wobble is an alignment issue...
 
with that much caster, combined with the pinion pointed up and the shackle reversal, Id guess that the knuckles have been rotated to correct the caster at some point in time, and that could be the reason for the difference...
 
The axle was stock, I pulled it out of the Waggy myself... I'm really curious what the alignment shop is going to say about my caster...
 
just speculating but could one of the soa spring perches be tilted a little off from the other?
 
can you post a pick of those adjustable "pieces". I'm just currious.
 
Both spring perches are rotated the same...

I'll look for a pic tonight of the screw in bushings...
 
Ball joint bearing preload adjusters... The "threaded bushing" pieces I mentioned earlier... The pic is one the wife took just to show the sleeve, that's not where I left it! It's screwed down to just past flush with the top of the knuckle.
PC060004.jpg

I assume setting these incorrectly would be a major contributor to death wobble? Yes, no??
I set my toe-in last night at 1/8" and test drove again tonight.. (very slowly and cautiously) The dip in the road that had previously caused the DW didn't this time. However, a bump in the road still causes the DW.
 
Those are the preload adjusters. They would probably lead to steering issues if installed incorrectly for sure. They might have to be super slopy to show up right away. New joints come with new sleeves and instructions for installing them. They also take a socket to torque them with, mine came from Snap On. From that pic I know of no way to adjust the angle your measuring other than: cut/turn the C's, degree shims on perches (not what I'd do), or cut move the perches. Or on a link set up adjust your link ends. I've never seen or heard of adjustable sleeves, only the O-Cams used in Twin I Beam IFS Fords. I'd check your TRE's or steering joints, pitman arm, and maybe your steering box (manual or power) for excesive slop since you say it happens at a slow speed. Hope some of this helps. Get a buddy to help by turning the wheel while you watch all the joints. Might show a issue somewhere else.

This is the procedure for the adjusters. I got the info from PARTS MIKE when I got some other stuff for a customer.

Dana 44 Ball Joint Adjustment - Install


TORQUE SPEC DANA 44 BALLJOINTS
50 FT/LBS LOWER NUT, 35 FT/LBS UPPER ADJUSTER, RE-TORQUE LOWER TO 150 FT/LBS
TORQUE UPPER CASTELLATED NUT TO 80 FT/LBS KEEP TIGHTENING UNTIL YOU CAN
INSERT COTTER PIN
 
Thanks for the info... I'm putting money on those adjusters being my problem... My balljoints came with instructions that only included the need to leave the adjusters out until the lower ball joint is seated, nothing about torquing them, or installing them to any sort of specification. I just ordered the spanner wrench to torque them correctly this evening. I wonder if my balljoints are trash now from riding on them out of adjustment. I haven't put more than 10 miles on them...

I have never seen the adjustable sleeves first hand either, but have found these: http://offroaders.com/info/tech-corner/project-cj7/project-cj7-castor.htm

All my steering joints are new, and I just got finished removing and reinstalling the perches for caster correction.
 
well I just got educated to by that link, but I'd say those would be hit or miss without a machine to use for alignment. They also look to have a minimal adjustment range. I also wander how close you can get any type of torque spec and stay aligned with the instal procedure I relayed to you.
 
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