Best way to charge RedTop?

Caver Dave

Just holdin' it down here in BFV
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Well, after sitting for several months, my 3 month old Redtop is dead. I had the cables off (no load at all), so I assume it's because it was installed, fired the Moss 2-3 times and left to sit?

Anyway, I threw the charger on it last week for a few minutes, but was seeing some weird action out of my Shumacher... high input amps for a minute, then dropping to none, then back to pegged, then to none, etc. Got paranoid and pulled it off in case it was damaging... Seems I'd heard they shouldn't be charged by conventional means?

Thoughts?
 
i got a batt charger from northern tool that has a high amp and low amp setting, as well as settings for deep cycle and normal batts. I had the same thing with my red top after 4-5 months of non-use. Charged it on low amp for an afternoon and its been working fine ever since. I can get a model # if you want for the charger.
 
Anyway, I threw the charger on it last week for a few minutes, but was seeing some weird action out of my Shumacher... high input amps for a minute, then dropping to none, then back to pegged, then to none, etc. Got paranoid and pulled it off in case it was damaging... Seems I'd heard they shouldn't be charged by conventional means?

Thoughts?

Your charger was overloaded, and shutting off so it doesn't fry itself...then back on...and off.. I have a little 6/2 amp one that will do the same thing.

I've always had great luck using the 2 amp setting for a long time. Now I alternate using the battery tender on the bike and the red top..
 
Don't recall the settings on my charger, but I put it on the lowest and slowest charge settings. Mine didn't act funny like you mentioned, but it charged good..... and you know how long my trash sat.... :rolleyes:
 
Mine does the same thing. If I let it sit too long it dies. Put my cheap charger on it and let it charge, the needle goes haywire for awhile but eventually settles down and the battery charges good. Done this several times and the battery seems to be OK as long as I drive it occasionally.
 
Main point... Bats can 'leak' down from about 1% to 15% per month.


Good general read on bats.

http://www.windsun.com/Batteries/Battery_FAQ.htm


some snips:
The lifespan of a battery will vary considerably with how it is used, how it is maintained and charged, temperature, and other factors. In extreme cases, it can vary to extremes - we have seen L-16's killed in less than a year by severe overcharging, and we have a large set of surplus telephone batteries that sees only occasional (5-10 times per year) heavy service that are now over 25 years old. We have seen gelled cells destroyed in one day when overcharged with a large automotive charger. We have seen golf cart batteries destroyed without ever being used in less than a year because they were left sitting in a hot garage without being charged. Even the so-called "dry charged" (where you add acid when you need them) have a shelf life of at most 18 months, as they are not totally dry (actually, a few are, but hard to find, the vast majority are shipped with damp plates).

These are some general (minimum - maximum) typical expectations for batteries if used in deep cycle service:
Starting: 3-12 months
Marine: 1-6 years
Golf cart: 2-6 years
AGM deep cycle: 4-7 years
Gelled deep cycle: 2-5 years
Deep cycle (L-16 type etc): 4-8 years
Rolls-Surrette premium deep cycle: 7-15 years
Industrial deep cycle (Crown and Rolls 4KS series): 10-20+ years
Telephone (float): 1-20 years. These are usually special purpose "float service", but often appear on the surplus market as "deep cycle". They can vary considerably, depending on age, usage, care, and type.
NiFe (alkaline): 3-25 years
NiCad: 1-20 years


Battery Voltages

All Lead-Acid batteries supply about 2.14 volts per cell (12.6 to 12.8 for a 12 volt battery) when fully charged. Batteries that are stored for long periods will eventually lose all their charge. This "leakage" or self discharge varies considerably with battery type, age, & temperature. It can range from about 1% to 15% per month. Generally, new AGM batteries have the lowest, and old industrial (Lead-Antimony plates) are the highest. In systems that are continually connected to some type charging source, whether it is solar, wind, or an AC powered charger this is seldom a problem. However, one of the biggest killers of batteries is sitting stored in a partly discharged state for a few months. A "float" charge should be maintained on the batteries even if they are not used (or, especially if they are not used). Even most "dry charged" batteries (those sold without electrolyte so they can be shipped more easily, with acid added later) will deteriorate over time. Max storage life on those is about 2-3 years.

Batteries self-discharge faster at higher temperatures. Lifespan can also be seriously reduced at higher temperatures - most manufacturers state this as a 50% loss in life for every 15 degrees F over a 77 degree cell temperature. Lifespan is increased at the same rate if below 77 degrees, but capacity is reduced. This tends to even out in most systems - they will spend part of their life at higher temperatures, and part at lower.
Myth: The old myth about not storing batteries on concrete floors is just that - a myth. This old story has been around for 100 years, and originated back when battery cases were made up of wood and asphalt. The acid would leak from them, and form a slow-discharging circuit through the now acid-soaked and conductive floor.
State of Charge

State of charge, or conversely, the depth of discharge (DOD) can be determined by measuring the voltage and/or the specific gravity of the acid with a hydrometer. This will NOT tell you how good (capacity in AH) the battery condition is - only a sustained load test can do that. Voltage on a fully charged battery will read 2.12 to 2.15 volts per cell, or 12.7 volts for a 12 volt battery. At 50% the reading will be 2.03 VPC (Volts Per Cell), and at 0% will be 1.75 VPC or less. Specific gravity will be about 1.265 for a fully charged cell, and 1.13 or less for a totally discharged cell. This can vary with battery types and brands somewhat - when you buy new batteries you should charge them up and let them sit for a while, then take a reference measurement. Many batteries are sealed, and hydrometer reading cannot be taken, so you must rely on voltage. Hydrometer readings may not tell the whole story, as it takes a while for the acid to get mixed up in wet cells. If measured right after charging, you might see 1.27 at the top of the cell, even though it is much less at the bottom. This does not apply to gelled or AGM batteries.
"False" Capacity

A battery can meet all the tests for being at full charge, yet be much lower than it's original capacity. If plates are damaged, sulfated, or partially gone from long use, the battery may give the appearance of being fully charged, but in reality acts like a battery of much smaller size. This same thing can occur in gelled cells if they are overcharged and gaps or bubbles occur in the gel. What is left of the plates may be fully functional, but with only 20% of the plates left... Batteries usually go bad for other reasons before reaching this point, but it is something to be aware of if your batteries seem to test OK but lack capacity and go dead very quickly under load.

----------------------------------
Note: the word "sulfated" when researching a charger for the Uhaul project I ended up purchasing a IOTA charge with a built in float charge system that 'de-sulfates' the cells, basically it jiggles the voltage to release the sulfer that can build up on the plates, preventing full charge.. I've been able to slap at charger on a few bats (for a few days) that seemed 'dead' and make them useful again...

A few more links... basically it all boils down to... Do your homework and take care of your bats. and they will take care of you...
http://www.repairfaq.org/ELE/F_Car_Battery.html
http://www.repairfaq.org/ELE/F_Car_Battery.html
 
Well, after sitting for several months, my 3 month old Redtop is dead. I had the cables off (no load at all), so I assume it's because it was installed, fired the Moss 2-3 times and left to sit?
Anyway, I threw the charger on it last week for a few minutes, but was seeing some weird action out of my Shumacher... high input amps for a minute, then dropping to none, then back to pegged, then to none, etc. Got paranoid and pulled it off in case it was damaging... Seems I'd heard they shouldn't be charged by conventional means?
Thoughts?
Caver,
Went to this, http://batterytender.com/ and been having good luck. You can leave it pluged up or just plug it up when needed from time to time.
The two blue tops on the trailer are kept up with one of these and it does real good, Just plug them up when I get back, or a week before a trip. Also use one on the blazer. My red tops have went south if not used in about 3 months...Keep a slow charge and they are OK.
 
When I worked for Auto Zone, don't beat me up, we had special training on how to charge Optima's when we got them in the store. We had a small trickle charger that we had to use. We could not use our quick chargers on them. In addition, we could not test them either. They would fail every time since the battery tester esentially tried to put a quick charge on the battery. So if you ever go to AZ, check to see if they have any used Optima's in the back. You can more than likely get them for dirt cheap, take them home and put a trickle charge on them and you will be fine.
 
I have three redtops on my Heep. Two I bought new, and one I got in a jeep purchase that was already 6 years old. They all stay up pretty good, unless extended non-use, as said above.
I have a friend who installed a germinate mounted Float charger and his has never ever given any problems, I know for a fact he has had them over 5 years. A trickle charger( as the differences have been explained to me) gives a very low but constant charge. a float charger is for maintaining a fully charged battery, fully charged. It only charges when the voltage gets to a certain degree of discharge.
So I would say to charge them, and then put a float charger on them. You can put jumpers on several at a time if you need to.
The biggest thing I have seen on my red tops is once when I drained two of them pretty low after two extensive weld jobs out on the trail(Greg Slade I am sure can remember) it took about a day and a half of wheeling to get them back charged. Keep in mind I am not using a regular alternator either, I have a 160 amp alternator. So now matter how much power I had available seems they only wanted to take so much, so fast.
 
2 amp trickle charge for about a day and a half and you should be good to go.
 
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