Bizarre legal question

My aunt is a notary. From what I have gathered from her just talking not about this is that a notary is a legal third party in place to keep both parties from being screwed. Sounds like she is trying to screw you. Personally id call it in stolen and be at dmv in the morning. I was given a car that had a lien on it that had been released but a new title hadn't been given to me (the Lien holder had signed title saying the lien had been payed) took it to dmv with original owner that had the lien taken out pulled the paper work and it was good to go. There should be some sort of paperwork, there is either none and it's faked or there is and she forged signatures. I do know that notarizing a forged signature is a 5000 fine and possibly 5 year prison
 
ManglerYJ said:
In writing, no. At this point just a "she said, she said". DEFINITELY a lesson learned, though.

I'm halfways tempted to contact the https://www.secretary.state.nc.us/notary/qualifications.aspx to inform them of the fraud. Perhaps having them investigate it may help.


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That's just it - we didn't know there was a lien, and we still don't know how much it is for. Could be any trumped up number that she put on the title when she sent it in. I don't think she had to show any evidence of it.
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I wouldn't even halfway consider contacting them - I'd have done it already.
She committed fraud, end of story. Tell them exactly what is above, that you didn't even know there was a lien on it.

I'd bet that there is fairly extensive paperwork/documentation needed to put a lien on a vehicle, and she didn't do it.
 
The more I think about it, the more I'd call her bluff and tell her OK, call in the lien.
In order to actually capture the title she'll have to be able to provide proof of the debt. Which she can't do, and really at that point the fraud will be obvious.

Or just take her to court.
Imagine this interaction:
wife: "Your honor, she put this lien on there after I signed. There is no proof that it's a legitimate lien."
MIL: "Yes, it's a legitimate lien. She didn't pay, so I'm calling in the title.
Magistrate: "Ok then. One of you says its a real lien, the other says it isn't. Please show me the paperwork trail leading up to the lien being placed."
MIL "Uuuh...." oops.
 
A lien only means that the person who is the lien holder is entitled to their interest in the car in case of sale. The fact that there is NO LOAN on the car from a financial institution means that no one's credit can or will be affected. No credit was issued or contract signed so therefore credit is not an issue. I put a lien on a title once with a family member with their consent because I gave them a car. It was to keep them from being able to get rid of it without me knowing. All it takes is to fill out that portion of the title and have it notarized and then run it to be recorded with the DMV. It prevents legal sale without the lien holder's permission, nothing more. It does affect who can sell the car until it is released (by filling out the release and having it notarized)

My advice is that since she did have a lien recorded and will undoubtedly not release it, just let her have it. Sign it over to her and wash your hands of the whole mess. If she is that type of person wash your hands of her as well. Life is too short to have toxic people in it. Family means nothing if the relationship is a thorn in your side.
 
ponykilr said:
A lien only means that the person who is the lien holder is entitled to their interest in the car in case of sale. The fact that there is NO LOAN on the car from a financial institution means that no one's credit can or will be affected. No credit was issued or contract signed so therefore credit is not an issue. I put a lien on a title once with a family member with their consent because I gave them a car. It was to keep them from being able to get rid of it without me knowing. All it takes is to fill out that portion of the title and have it notarized and then run it to be recorded with the DMV. It prevents legal sale without the lien holder's permission, nothing more. It does affect who can sell the car until it is released (by filling out the release and having it notarized)

My advice is that since she did have a lien recorded and will undoubtedly not release it, just let her have it. Sign it over to her and wash your hands of the whole mess. If she is that type of person wash your hands of her as well. Life is too short to have toxic people in it. Family means nothing if the relationship is a thorn in your side.
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That's interesting info. I didn't know you could do that. I agree with the idea of going no contact after this is over.

I'm in for blowing it up though.
 
Just talked with a friend who is a member of the NC BAR. This isnt legal advice but it came from a good authority, seek your own counsel. Blah,blah,blah.

Assume she has a lien. She has to be a licensed recovery (repo) agent to take or KEEP possession of the car without your approval. If she personally executed a "lien claim" without a proper license she committed a felony.

Now its time to see who wants to play hardball.

No way in hell would I give her the car under these circumstances. You have title and she has lien. If there is no debt owed attached to the lien, neither of you can dispose of the car without the others approval.

I would make a hobby out of her.
 
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^
Is a junker car and an asshole MIL worth all that? Does it make you a better person or even prove or change anything? There are some things which demand a point to be proven or even revenge to be sought. A car you don't even want and a bitter old lady, who no matter what will still think she is right and you are wrong, is not one of those things. Sign it over with a smile, tell her she is welcome to the car and thank her for letting your daughter use it while she did. Then walk away from that toxic relationship and live your life with the knowledge that YOU WIN. Don't let others make you miserable by even caring what they do or think.

Worst case is, legally or not, she makes some sort of mess out of a "repossession" and it takes the help of a lawyer and lots of money to straighten it out. Over. A. Junk. Car.

Discretion is the better part of valor.
 
^Prolly a better person than I.
Or related to MIL :flipoff2:

I'd hang the beotch and wait to watch the buzzards pick her clean.
 
Ron said:
^Prolly a better person than I.
Or related to MIL :flipoff2:

I'd hang the beotch and wait to watch the buzzards pick her clean.
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haha, no, I have just been around some. Time, treasure and peace is worth more than points and oneupmanship to me.
 
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That's a tough decision. What's the plan OP?
 
So it will be somewhere in between ponykilr's suggestion and passive-aggressive Mexican Standoff. I'll post again if anything changes.
 
Like a late night romp after too much whiskey...lots of action and no conclusion...
 
The car is still sitting in their driveway undrivable, untitleable and I'm un-give-a-sh!t-able. Good old Mexican Stand-off from calling her bluff.

Funny side story, though. Back in 2006, my wife had to take her ex husband to court for some doctor bills that he was suppose to pay for the girls as part of their divorce. Nevertheless, she got a judgment and we have had to have him served. Finally, the Sherriff deputy calls to let us know that in order to repossess either of the vehicles he's currently paying taxes on (a 1988 Chevy half ton 4x4 and a Harley Sportster), we would have to pony up $500 up front to cover towing and storage until it sells at action, and then, if it sells, we would get the judgment and the $500 back out of the proceeds.

He then tells us that both vehicles have liens on them by (you guessed it) the ex-mother-in-law. So in order for us to get paid, the vehicle would have to sell for at least $1700 at auction to get our money back, BUT the lien would have to be paid FIRST. Since the lien holder doesn't have to represent how much the lien was for until AFTER they are notified, even if the sale was for $3000, she could then say that the lien was for $3001 and we would be out of the whole deal.

So, after my wife asking why nobody had bothered to tell us about the $500 thing, she talks to his supervisor. She explains how he said in court, "Oh yeah, I owe her that money..." and that nearly 10 years has passed and NADA, she says that simply if someone would just approach him in person in an official capacity, she bet that he would pay up, he says, "I wish you had told me that sooner.... I only have a week left before I have to turn this paperwork back in to the court and the process would have to start over. Visiting deadbeats is the fun part of my job..." Wait... what?!?!?!

So needless to say, he paid a visit every day until he got a hold of him. Once the deputy did, as we figured, ex husband goes crying to mommy and has her pony up the cash including roughly 80 cents per day interest from the date of the judgment. The funny part is that they paid the following day and 83 cents worth of interest had accrued so they had to come back and pay it separate. We also got two checks from the court system. One for the amount she paid the first day and one for the 83 cents she had to come back with. Since the court doesn't take checks or credit cards, they had to pay cash or a money order. Justice finally served.
 
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