Brake help

93redzj

93redzj

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 29, 2005
Location
Albemarle
I got this jeep from my mom a couple months back and the rear brakes were all ate up and rotors tore up. Went to change pads and rotors and the Pistons in the brake calipers seemed to be seized so I just replaced it all, rotors pads and calipers. Now it seems I still have an issue in the rear braking system as I have gone through a set of pads in about a month and a half. The jeep is a 94 with V8 all time 4wd, disc brakes in rear. I've got something that appears to be tied into my braking system under the hood but I have no idea what it is and if it could be the source of my problem or not, I'll attach pics. It appears that two rubber lines run off of the MC reservoir to it and then some hard brake lines run off of it too but I don't know what this thing is or what it's purpose is. So if anyone could help it would be appreciated
 

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Looks like abs system. Are your front brakes working at all. It could be that all your stopping is being done by the rear causing them to wear faster
 
Hm, it seems they are working. The rear brakes before seemed as if they were sticking. Not to the point where they smoke when you stop but it felt like there was a slight resistance when going down the road.
 
I don't really know much about the specifics of Jeeps, but a lot of vehicles have pad self adjust mechanisms on the rear brakes, usually ones with calipers that use the rear calipers for parking brakes. If you change the pads but don't reset the self adjusting mechanism, you can have pad drag pretty badly because you've got full-height pads but self adjusters that are still adjusted for worn pads.
 
Don't know much about that, but I believe the parking break pads for my jeep are like a drum style pad that's located on the inside of the rotor if that description makes sense, the rear rotors removed easily and installed easy so I don't beleive those were adjusted all the way out and possibly preventing the drag
 
I'm with jeepguy. Start simple, if you haven't taken a look at the front don't rule it out. Take it for a spin and do some good stopping. If the front is working they should be very warm, like probably can't touch the rotor warm if you do a few hard stops. May not be the problem but simple enough to cross off the list and move on. Sometimes it's the simple things we overlook that drive us nuts.


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77GreenMachine said:
I'm with jeepguy. Start simple, if you haven't taken a look at the front don't rule it out. Take it for a spin and do some good stopping. If the front is working they should be very warm, like probably can't touch the rotor warm if you do a few hard stops. May not be the problem but simple enough to cross off the list and move on. Sometimes it's the simple things we overlook that drive us nuts.


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I agree with you there, I often over look the easy things. But i have determined the front brakes to be working, at least the rotors were nice and hot
 
I missed the part where the rear brakes were the original problem before replacing everything. Make sure there are no crimped/bent lines that would hold residual pressure, etc.
 
Fabrik8 said:
I missed the part where the rear brakes were the original problem before replacing everything. Make sure there are no crimped/bent lines that would hold residual pressure, etc.
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This....

possibly a collapsed line... i had a cherokee that one of the rubber hoses in the front collapsed and started a brake fire one night driving in to work...

also, if it has ABS, you can disable it by pulling the fuse, that would let you know if the ABS is causing the problem.. the brakes work normally if ABS is not working, you will only loose skid protection.

you could try hooking pressure gauge to the bleeder port to see if break bias is set correctly.. maybe the master cylinder is messed up?
 
These have been a concern of mine from the beginning, it seems like the lines are in a bind here but it's the only way they will connect to caliper. Haven't performed other suggested tests yet, no time set aside to work much on it today. Although I did check around on the lines in the rear and didn't notice any obvious kinks, checked soft lines for cracklings and didn't detect any either
 

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I don't like that either. That banjo fitting looks square, are you sure you can't clock it 90 degrees? There's no way that's a OEM brake line orientation with a bend radius like that. Almost looks like that raised rib is supposed to be flipped over to index with the edge of the caliper boss to prevent the fitting from turning while the banjo bolt is tightened.
 
I'm fairly certain that's the only way it will go on. I've tried to turn it but the bolt wants to cross thread as the square part of the fitting won't line up against the caliper. Tried when I first installed new calipers and then again just a few minutes ago
 
Are you sure the calipers are right side up/on the right sides.


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Bleeder screw has to be on top correct? I'm pretty sure that's what the paper said that came with calipers. I installed it the way it was said to be installed. Man I'd feel like a moron if they were on wrong sides haha
 
Not to insult just checking lol. Had a buddy do that, had them in the wrong sides and they never would bleed right so he couldn't get good brakes.

That does look like an unusual route for the lines. Almost like they are too short


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No worries I didn't take it that way, but it did make me wonder if I had them on backwards. I'll check the abs side of it tomorrow, pull the fuse and see what happens
 
Change the master, it's holding pressure I will bet. Had a olds alero do that except it was fronts. Changed MC after both calipers and one sets of pads burnt up in less than 5k miles!! Mountain roads or not.
Photo is my 98 zj 4.0 awd, d35 rear passenger side. It'd been a better pic if it was light out side.
 

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a_kelley said:
Change the master, it's holding pressure I will bet. Had a olds alero do that except it was fronts. Changed MC after both calipers and one sets of pads burnt up in less than 5k miles!! Mountain roads or not.
Photo is my 98 zj 4.0 awd, d35 rear passenger side. It'd been a better pic if it was light out side.
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This


there should be a residual check valve in the master cyl. that holds about 5psi to keep the springs in the drums tight. more than likely it has trash and is holding more than the 3-5 psi. causing the brakes to drag.
 
a_kelley said:
Change the master, it's holding pressure I will bet. Had a olds alero do that except it was fronts. Changed MC after both calipers and one sets of pads burnt up in less than 5k miles!! Mountain roads or not.
Photo is my 98 zj 4.0 awd, d35 rear passenger side. It'd been a better pic if it was light out side.
Click to expand...
I was wondering about the MC being bad myself. And that brake line looks correct but mine will not bolt up that way for nothing
 
Before you start throwing parts at it, let's talk basic shit:

1. What kind of condition are the front rotors in? Are they nice and shiny, or do they have a lot of pits and grooves?
2. What kind of condition are the front pads in? Any significant glazing? Has the glue gotten hot and leaked out?
3. In a panic stop, how does it behave? Do all the brakes feel like they're doing their job, or does it seem to brake more from the front or more from the back?

If the front rotors/pads are all to shit, they won't contribute as much braking power as they're supposed to, which means you'll need more "brake" to get the rears involved, and they'll wear out faster than they should, since they're doing most of the work.

If the rears are dragging, they should get hot as fuck on a short highway ride. Try to use the brakes as little as possible, and take it out for a 10 minute drive at 65-75mph. When you get done, the rears shouldn't be any more than lukewarm. If they're 650F and smoking, you should look into replacing collapsed lines or master cylinders or seized calipers/slides or WTFever. (If the soft lines are 10 years old, you might should have replaced them anyway, but that doesn't mean they're "bad"). Is the ABS light on? Depending on how you bled it, it's possible that you got the dump valves screwed up. I'm no expert there, but I bleed our ABS vehicles with the key off, and that seems to work fine.
 
Checked the fronts a couple weeks ago when I did lift install on jeep, (and with this ongoing brake issue, I check the rotors on all wheels regularly just to see if rears are starting to groove again) everything up front seems to be in good condition and good working order. Haven't performed any panic stops to see how the brakes react. I agree with not slinging parts at a problem hoping to fix it. I've had my fair share of that in the past which is why I take my time now to make sure what I replace is what needs to be replaced. When I replaced everything on the rear the brakes were bled with key off.

I've never noticed any smoking from the rears but I've smelled the burning up break smell, you know that great smell you get going down a mountain behind someone riding their brakes the whole way down
 
93redzj said:
Checked the fronts a couple weeks ago when I did lift install on jeep, (and with this ongoing brake issue, I check the rotors on all wheels regularly just to see if rears are starting to groove again) everything up front seems to be in good condition and good working order. Haven't performed any panic stops to see how the brakes react. I agree with not slinging parts at a problem hoping to fix it. I've had my fair share of that in the past which is why I take my time now to make sure what I replace is what needs to be replaced. When I replaced everything on the rear the brakes were bled with key off.

I've never noticed any smoking from the rears but I've smelled the burning up break smell, you know that great smell you get going down a mountain behind someone riding their brakes the whole way down
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if you got that smell, something is dragging!
 
Smell isn't always there though which confuses me a little. But I've definitely had that smell before on back passenger side which led me to beleive they were dragging.

The way my lines are to the rear caliper are a big concern of mine as to maybe holding the residual pressure, as was the MC being a possible culprit. Although it's free to try and move that line around and get it looking right. I'll try all things that have been recommended here and go from there. I appreciate all the help and input guys
 
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