Butch Davis speaks out on football ethics

LOL, the head of the cheatingest cheaters ever in the ACC, telling us how clean he is.

And no, everybody most certainly does NOT do it, too.

At some point, even the most diehard, pro-Butch UNC folks need to ask, "Dude, exactly what DID you know? You sure claim to have not known about any of the cheating that was going on right under your nose, by coaches you hired and players you signed, and tutors you employed".

The academic cheating I wouldn't pin on Butch. That has been going on at UNC since before the ACC. They define the term "shady" with their athletes and academics.

It's funny....they have FAR more academic non-qualifiers on their football team than NC State does in their entire athletic program......yet all of these players graduate. And UNC brags about it.
Does that in itself not raise a red flag? Their star receiver, Jones, was denied admission to Clemson. But there he is, no problem at UNC. And that's no knock on Clemson, but they don't claim to be something they're not.

Butch damn sure is lying about not knowing about John Blake's shady dealings. Everyone in the coaching community knew it. You had an agent as your Associate Head Coach and Director of Recruiting. That right there is one of the biggest no-no's for the NCAA.

It'll be interesting to see what punishment the NCAA hands down.

It'd also be interesting to see them check out the academics of the basketball team....because nearly all of them take classes with the cheating Swahili professor, too.
 
honestly, ethics is not even a word in the college sports dictionary anymore. There is too much money to be made.
 
Pacfanweb said:
And no, everybody most certainly does NOT do it, too. .
Click to expand...

I'd beg to differ...the same stuff happens at every school, simply a different team mascot. It depends on who the NCAA wants to take down that year. Doesn't matter what school, I was once told by a coach that if you weren't cheating you weren't trying to win. I went on official and unofficial visits all over this country, some schools were further in violation than others, but the fact is...they were all violations. Didn't matter if it was an Ivy league school a conference usa school, an ACC school, Big 10 or 12 school, or an SEC school.

Pacfanweb said:
It'd also be interesting to see them check out the academics of the basketball team....because nearly all of them take classes with the cheating Swahili professor, too.
Click to expand...

Again...happens at every school. I'll save the dissertation.
 
Right there with ya Pacfan.....Dwight Jones committs to Clemson and Clemson denies him admission because of his transcripts, he never clears NCAA clearinghouse, yet he is admitted to Public Ivy....what the fawk ever.

I just hope the ACC finds it in their little old hearts to add a year to whatever probation the NCAA hands down. For those that dont know the reference read up...

Damn elitest bastids...and Butch Davis is dirty s hell. He cleaned up Miami because he was smart enough to know how to not get caught. Unfortunately he didnt keep up with technology...and it bit him.

I will say this about the SEC at last when they cheat (I am looking at your Auburn and Scam I Am) they bring hardware home. When the ACC chats (see UNC and Miami) they go to a car care bowl.....
 
UTfball68 said:
I'd beg to differ...the same stuff happens at every school, simply a different team mascot. It depends on who the NCAA wants to take down that year. Doesn't matter what school, I was once told by a coach that if you weren't cheating you weren't trying to win. I went on official and unofficial visits all over this country, some schools were further in violation than others, but the fact is...they were all violations. Didn't matter if it was an Ivy league school a conference usa school, an ACC school, Big 10 or 12 school, or an SEC school.
Again...happens at every school. I'll save the dissertation.
Click to expand...



Ben you were certainly in the game more recently than I, so I will defer to your opinion somwhat. But what I saw in the early 90s was yes every school gave impermissable benefits to players. Now academic fraud, kids not even going on campus, kids who have graduated and in the NFL allegedly not being able to name 3 academic building anywhere on campus when shown a map....that didnt happen everywhere.

Tommy West said many of times, "Guys I can't help you inside those walls. That is up to you. You take care of that piece of paper I get twice a year and I will take care of whatever else you need."

Now we had academic support buildings, and academic support staff. They would spend unlimited amounts of time helping you, proof reading a paper, etc. But they would not write it for you. They would not sit in class and take scantron tests for you.
 
I think I can offer a reasonably accurate opinion of any of the modern SEC or ACC schools. I'll just say that I was one of the 'better behaved' student athletes, and even I made some questionable decisions, and I wasn't one of those folks majoring in underwaterbasketweaving...I got legit degrees in Finance, Accounting and a minor in international business...at a top 25 public business school. So the violations ran rampant. Beyond that, I'd rather not divulge details in the public eye.


I could literally write pages about this from guys I personally know from UT or most SEC and ACC schools, that are now in the NBA, NFL or training for the Olympics, but I'll save the bandwidth.


Edit...requirements to get into college for an athlete on scholarship, according to the Clearing House, when I went through it...the student athlete needed an 800 on the SAT and a 3.5 GPA or a 1000 on the SAT and a 2.0 GPA leaving high school. I think for the average student to get admitted to UT while I was there, they needed a 1280 AND a 3.5gpa to get in. The system is flawed right out of high school. You're telling me that the universities alter the academic rules to get the kid in there...but you don't think they would once they're there?
 
No university has ever had an AGENT on staff, much less TWO, and much less one of them being the Associate Head Coach and head of recruiting.
But UNC did. So no, everybody most certainly does NOT do THAT.
Now, any school can and probably does break a lot of the minor rules when recruiting....nobody can really keep track of what goes on during these visits. But that's small potatoes to having your Associate Head Coach on the payroll of an agent, and outright academic fraud.

The Swahili professor and all the academic cheating....that's just icing on the cake for ABC fans, really. UNC has been looking down their noses for decades at other ACC schools, claiming how they "do things right" and even coining a term for it, called "The Carolina Way".
And what's so gratifying is that FINALLY the Carolina Way has been exposed as what it really was the entire time: "We're cheating our asses off and just haven't been caught".

I think I know what Ron was alluding to earlier: Years ago, UNC's then-AD, John Swofford (now ACC Commissioner) called a meeting with the rest of the ACC schools EXCEPT one...that one was at the time, going through an NCAA investigation and I think had already gotten their punishment.
He wanted the rest of the ACC schools to vote for the ACC to punish that school even more.

The school: Clemson.

I wonder if he'll recommend the same for UNC once the NCAA drops their hammer? Probably not, since he went to the hearing with the UNC folks as a "personal favor".

The first thing us State folks hear from a UNC fan if when we've questioned how they are getting some of those dummies admitted to the "Public Ivy League" school over there is: "Chris Washburn". Been hearing that for years.
Dude played here 25 years ago. That all you got? They conveniently ignore that they've have many players as dumb or dumber skate right through that "Public Ivy" and "earn" degrees. Lawrence Taylor comes to mind.

So yes, every school has "athlete friendly" professors that athletes take courses from in big numbers. Every school strays over the line during recruiting, some more than others. (SEC)

But not every school basically hands out degrees like UNC does. No school ever had an agent on staff that was flying players around the country to speed camps, parties, etc. That's what I meant when I said "everyone does NOT do it".
 
UTfball68 said:
I think for the average student to get admitted to UT while I was there, they needed a 1280 AND a 3.5gpa to get in. The system is flawed right out of high school. You're telling me that the universities alter the academic rules to get the kid in there...but you don't think they would once they're there?
Click to expand...

lol...I know what you are trying to say, but I had to check on that average SAT at Tennessee
Current average SAT at UT is 1160, average incoming GPA is 3.78.

But yeah, I get what you're saying.....I'm just saying that not all schools ride the ragged edge of the rules like others.
 
Pacfan...while I respect what you're saying and understand where you're coming from, I have to simply disagree. Unless you've recently been through a major system (I'm 2 years removed), you can not know the intimate details of the daily goings on. You may have me on the detail of a former agent on the daily staff, but don't be fooled, agents did/do carry a very heavy presence around collegiate teams. There are a handful of stories every year of schools paying agents to recruit/scout talent. So I'll respectfully agree to disagree with you on this topic.

On edit...as I said earlier, I'd prefer to keep details out of the public, but if you'd like to know more, I'd be happy to divulge more details in a PM.
 
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