Concrete block home vs block and wood...?

hunterdan

hunterdan

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2009
Location
Morganton,NC
I had an earlier thread a while back about a piece pf property we were logging and hoping to build a house on soon. This thread is about the same property but more specifically about the home build and materials.

We are looking at a 28x28 basement with a 28x28 upper floor. Basement would be simple design with 1 bath, 2 bedrooms and remaining area for laundry and surplus...
Upper floor would be kitchen in one corner open to living area and a master bed and bath. We were planning one 8' wall and one 14' wall giving a larger open feel to the living area. The roof would be a single pitch (shed style) roof. A lean to would be attached to the outside high wall for parking or a future addition or screen room...

Main thing is we are doing the block basement 10' tall and were wondering if we could keep going up with block for the upper floors walls? I imagine that would be a 18' +/- tall wall on the short side and 23'+/- wall for the high wall. With the one pitch roof we were guessing the sides would have to be filled in with stick built gables?

I've heard of block with rebar and poured concrete. I've also heard of pre engineered panels that re erected on site. I've also heard some mention foam block forms and such

We plan to sub out rough plumbing,electrical,mini-split ac

If wood then I am planning to get just the shell and finish the inside myself. I will be doing the interior on both floors.

In the end what will be the cheapest? All block or block basement and stick upper floor?
 
You can figure 3.50 to 4 dollars per block. Not including material. Find your square footage of walls and multiply by 1.13 for number of blocks. 1 bag of motor per 40 block, 800lbs of sand per 100 block. If your filling 8" block it's about a cubic yard per 100 block. Standard #4 rebar every 4'

Edit: remember all bedrooms must have egress. If doing block all the way you'll have to put lintels in for trusses may loose ceiling height in basement depending on style of floor trusses used

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Also, don't forget about insulation. You'll need to furr out the walls w2x4's or similar to use batt insulation. Not sure of the requirements for spray foam.

Google Superior Walls for a preformed type deal. I have no knowledge about masonry but every plan I see with a block wall basement calls for it to be reinforced and filled w/concrete per the engr.
 
Loganwayne said:
You can figure 3.50 to 4 dollars per block. Not including material. Find your square footage of walls and multiply by 1.13 for number of blocks. 1 bag of motor per 40 block, 800lbs of sand per 100 block. If your filling 8" block it's about a cubic yard per 100 block. Standard #4 rebar every 4'

Edit: remember all bedrooms must have egress. If doing block all the way you'll have to put lintels in for trusses may loose ceiling height in basement depending on style of floor trusses used

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So, can we do block walls basement to roof at that height?

We were looking to use the bumpy surface split face style blocks with texture facing inside. Would I have to fir out walls? I figured with a 28x28 floor plan a mini split combined with fireplace upstairs and wood stove downstairs we would be able to heat and cool the home efficiently. The basement would be a walk out style with only the back underground feathering out to none at walk out end.

As far as re-sale we don't plan on selling. If we do...believe it or not there are many nice looking square homes with shed style roofs. They are boxy at first but with different windows (vertical/horizontal...) and a covered wrap around porches, lean to's they loose their boxiness.
 
Personally wouldn't put split face on the inside. Firing the wall out you would have to call local building code office see what they r rating they have for a 8" block filled and what min. For r rating in wall is. If it doesn't match or exceed you have to fir it out and insulate per code

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hunterdan said:
I've heard of block with rebar and poured concrete. I've also heard of pre engineered panels that re erected on site. I've also heard some mention foam block forms and such
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The panels are called SIPs (Structural Insulated Panels). They're expensive, but they can be cost comparable to stick-built with spray foam insulation; you save labor cost with the SIPs because they go up so fast. If you're doing the labor yourself, that cost equalization goes out the window. Other than that, they're generally significantly more expensive than the traditional stick-build with fiberglass bat insulation. Far better insulation because of a lack of thermal bridging though. One of the best manufacturers in the US happens to be located in Mocksville near Winston-Salem area, and they're really nice to deal with.

There's also factory-built stick frame panels, but I don't think that's what you're talking about probably.

The block forms are generically called ICFs, Insulated Concrete Forms. There are various different types of systems that work in different ways, and it's a good research project to find out how the systems work and which may best suit your needs. They're mostly all interlocking foam shapes with support/tie structures to keep from ballooning when filled with concrete. Some of the systems are really clever, and supposedly save money (for basements, etc) because they erect so fast, and then just need to get poured. I think they're a more high-end product for high perf houses above ground though, and more expensive than stick built walls. I think they're cool but I like new materials and building science stuff (I don't work in building trades).

It all depends on what you're looking for, and why....
 
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Thanks for all the advice and info.


Why would you not face the texture side inside the home. My wife just thought it would be pleasing compared to the flat side. Now if I do fir it out the of course flat side in would make sense.
 
We have superior walls in our basement, they went in, in less than a day. 2300sqft. I have no complaints and the basement stays 2 degree cooler than main floor year round. I believe they can stack them for a second floor. I have no real knowledge for you though.
 
hunterdan said:
Thanks for all the advice and info.


Why would you not face the texture side inside the home. My wife just thought it would be pleasing compared to the flat side. Now if I do fir it out the of course flat side in would make sense.
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Texture will hold dirt dust more than slick brick. Most people that build block homes don't have the inside finished in block. Think about how your electrical will be ran. If you don't build the wall out you will have to surface mount all electrical in conduit on walls

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Lot's of good info...thanks.

I was thinking of being the contractor but since we are planning on just doing a shell and finishing the inside ourselves then we will most likely use a contractor.

Since we know what type of floor plan we want who would I go to for an approved plan? There are similar homes online that offer plans and engineering...Would that be the best route and just re-arrange those plans to our liking or should we start from scratch with a local.
 
hunterdan said:
Lot's of good info...thanks.

I was thinking of being the contractor but since we are planning on just doing a shell and finishing the inside ourselves then we will most likely use a contractor.

Since we know what type of floor plan we want who would I go to for an approved plan? There are similar homes online that offer plans and engineering...Would that be the best route and just re-arrange those plans to our liking or should we start from scratch with a local.
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If you know what you want, and can find it online, that's a good way to save money. My architect and a few designers I know said the same thing, basically if your needs are simple then its a good way to go. You should be able to permit directly off of those plans, which is the big attraction. I've looked into that in the past for garage and house plans, but didn't find anything we liked for either.
 
30x30 was just a range we wanted but an actual footprint would be a 28x32 if we go with the plans we have found online. The basement would have one wall across the middle with 2 bedrooms and a bath between them, The other half would be open. Upstairs would be a kitchen in one corner open to the living room. With a bedroom and master bath in the other corner. Basically very few walls.

I guess your saying that I would need an architect and an engineer even with a simple plan and that would be more costly than an existing online plan?

Thanks
 
I'd say 95% percent if not more of residential homes don't need or use an engineer. A build design construction firm would draw what you wanted, but probably wouldn't want to work with you since your not wanting a turn key house.

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hunterdan said:
I guess your saying that I would need an architect and an engineer even with a simple plan and that would be more costly than an existing online plan?

Thanks
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You'd at least need a designer, and they'd often have an engineer they work or would know of one. A designer could also modify plans you found online, if you find someone willing to make a few bucks doing mods to plans from another source.
 
Find an idividual that does drafting. I am using a gal here for my plans, charges 600 or so for full set. Cheaper than most of the online plan services, and it's 100pct custom floorplan.

Many of the homebuilders around here use the same person, I just cut out the middleman, and will have a full set of plans that I can shop around to different builders.

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Also think about the level of detail you actually want in the plans, because that will ultimately set the cost. That's really the level of communication to the builder, so how detailed the plans are will dictate how much the builder needs to interpret or make decisions on. The cheaper the plans, the less detail you're going to get, which (again) may be perfectly suitable if your needs are simple. Floor plans can be cheap, detail drawings are expensive.
 
Plans don't really need to be to detsiled. If you plan on finishing it out yourself you will probably walk around and help do the layout for electrical and HVAC and plumbing

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kaiser715 said:
Find an idividual that does drafting. I am using a gal here for my plans, charges 600 or so for full set. Cheaper than most of the online plan services, and it's 100pct custom floorplan.

Many of the homebuilders around here use the same person, I just cut out the middleman, and will have a full set of plans that I can shop around to different builders.

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Is she also an engineer or do you take her plans to an engineer for a stamp afterwards?
 
hunterdan said:
Is she also an engineer or do you take her plans to an engineer for a stamp afterwards?
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Residential don't require engineer stamps or architect stamps most of the time. I've turned in a house plan on note book paper and got a permit before... although that was several years ago and it depends on county or city. Call the county building department and ask what they require to get a building permit

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Fabrik8 said:
Also think about the level of detail you actually want in the plans, because that will ultimately set the cost. That's really the level of communication to the builder, so how detailed the plans are will dictate how much the builder needs to interpret or make decisions on. The cheaper the plans, the less detail you're going to get, which (again) may be perfectly suitable if your needs are simple. Floor plans can be cheap, detail drawings are expensive.
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We are just looking to get framing done and outside done along with windows and doors. I'm finishing the roof and our hvac/plumber and electrician are fellow church members and/or locals we have used in the past.
 
Loganwayne said:
I'd say 95% percent if not more of residential homes don't need or use an engineer. A build design construction firm would draw what you wanted, but probably wouldn't want to work with you since your not wanting a turn key house.

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That varies by county. Here in Mecklenburg, you need an engineer to sign off on just about anything.

If you need an engineer there, I would use someone local that the inspectors are familiar with.
 
I'm pretty sure Burke county requires a stamp to get a building permit. They want one for a steel building I'm hoping to do.
 
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