Confederate Flag.... what's it mean to you?

What do you see when you see the Confederate Flag?

  • Tradition

    Votes: 31 49.2%

  • Hatred

    Votes: 4 6.3%

  • Cool orange car

    Votes: 11 17.5%

  • Honor

    Votes: 7 11.1%

  • Something totally other.

    Votes: 10 15.9%
  • Total voters
    63
ManglerYJ

ManglerYJ

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 20, 2005
Location
Lexington, NC
It's been said that it's a symbol of Southern Pride. A trademark of the fighting force that was the backbone of a revolution against the tyranny of the North. It's been called a symbol of hatred, ignorance and bigotry. It's been called, "The thing painted on the roof of the General Lee." The flying colors of the Redneck.

However you look at it, it's sort of a Rorschach Test of your world experience. I wanted to get some people's viewpoints on it.
 
I've never understood the hatred part. I would like to hear the argument on that one.
 
Here's my take on it, and coming from the North I'm sure there are a lot on here who don't agree with me.

It is a symbol of racism and not tradition. Like I said to a friend of mine the other day who said it was "heritage not hate", that is just an excuse to not admit that your great great great grandfather was a racist.

Civil War was fought over the expansion of slavery. Confederate flag is a symbol of that. Fuck "heritage" it is an insult to black people in this country and people need to finally admit that much and stop using it.

That's all I will say about it, because from what I have found arguing these facts is like arguing with a sack of hammers.
 
I once raced an MJ that was General Lee orange and I currently display an 01 in the proper font on my left shoulder. I'll let the masses decide where I stand.

But, I do see where some groups can perceive it as a symbol of a time period in US history in which slavery and it's abuse and social unjust ran rampant.
Should it be displayed on a state capital building? Probably not in my opinion.
 
Blaze said:
Here's my take on it, and coming from the North I'm sure there are a lot on here who don't agree with me.

It is a symbol of racism and not tradition. Like I said to a friend of mine the other day who said it was "heritage not hate", that is just an excuse to not admit that your great great great grandfather was a racist.

Civil War was fought over the expansion of slavery. Confederate flag is a symbol of that. Fuck "heritage" it is an insult to black people in this country and people need to finally admit that much and stop using it.

That's all I will say about it, because from what I have found arguing these facts is like arguing with a sack of hammers.
Click to expand...

You actually have to start with some facts before you can argue them. You've stated two opinions and half of an incorrect fact. While slavery was a reason for the Civil War, it wasn't about the expansion of slavery, and slavery could be (and has been) argued to have not even been the biggest cause.

Personally I see the arguments both ways. I have flown and occasionally fly a Confederate Battle Flag, but more so now fly a First National Flag when inclined to fly anything other than an American Flag.

Duane
 
Since my reply in another thread spawned this one, I'll answer. I'll give a most beat-around-the-bush answer as I can since the opposition does the same.
I respect it since its something that has a history in my family and frown upon it since its so abused in today's world. I have many family members from way back that died for a confederate cause. Not the flag, the cause. Was the cause to keep slaves and promote rascism? Idk, I wasn't there. Was the cause to keep tyrannical politicians of the northern states from controlling the lives of those in the South? Idk I wasn't there. What it meant then is somewhat of a mystery. What it means now is the same. Since so many died defending its cause, I cannot bring myself to disrespect it. Speculation is far worse than what it actually was or is. Would I use the death of a few in the hands of a psychopath to wipe out something I don't understand? No, how could I?
Maybe the best place for a flag is not in a public place but in the front yard of someone who fully understands it. I guess I don't.
 
Its is a symbol, to me, of a group of people willing to fight and risk everything against insurmountable odds for a cause they believe in. It is a reminder of the fire, passion and courage that held off a much larger force for far longer than should have been possible. Was slavery a portion of the cause for war, yes, I guess.

But please dont get history twisted. Slavery was not the cause for the civil war. In fact slavery wasnt even a major Union rallying cry until Renaissance-era France intended to join the CSA side to ensure their supply of Southern Cotton was maintained. Lincoln issued the Emancipation Proclamation purely as a militaristic strategy to prevent French involvement. It was a brilliant military move. It was not a human relations move. The EP ONLY freed slaves in current rebel states. It did nothing for the freedom of slaves in the current Union states and even went quite a ways to make sure it didnt free slaves in "border" or "swing" states through its extensive definition of what a rebellious state was. At the time of his death, well after the end of the conflict, Lincoln still possesed 3 unpaid servants. Don't let the honest Abe shit fool ya. The WORST PRESIDENT this country ever knew until 2008....

All that said.

It pisses me off that ignorant assholes have bastardized that symbol and used it for their racist purposes. It embarrasses me that my state chose to raise that flag over the state house, not to honor the Confederate dead but as a direct response to federal civil rights legislation 100 years after the last cannon fired.

For me it needs to be cherished and embraced. But the grounds of the state house probably isn't the right place for that to happen.
 
@Ron Thank you. You said exactly what I didn't feel like typing.
 
aimages.tapatalk_cdn.com_15_06_14_dd35cc5e3729ac289a1c9712723ac016.jpg

I'll just leave this here.....
 
I marked tradition. To me it symbolizes a time in our history that brother fought brother and father fought son.... And for what? What they believed in, and what they thought would have made this a stronger country. Like said above it sickens me to see it used as a symbol if ignorance and hate.



Oh and I fly the St. Andrew's Cross off my front porch everyday. ;) Not for the confederacy though, but because I have a deep Scottish heritage...
 
Before saying anything else, I feel compelled to disclose my own and family history... both of my parents are from W TN, I was born in VA, lived in SC until 8, then NC until I was 32. I consider myself a Southern Boy, never lived above the M-D line. I am proud of my Southern upbringing. The tea and BBQ up here is terrible.
For those that know me, and my last name... you'll find that 90% of folks on this end of the country by the same name are not white. Reason being... at one point my ancestors were one of the largest single-family owners of plantations on the east coast. There's an old giant one just outside Lexington. On name registration days after the EP, it is documented that some locales were inundated w/ black folks taking on my last name.
So you can guess... my family had a lot to lose due to the EP, and some high stakes in the whole Confederacy movement, even aside from the slavery issue.

Knowing all this, and my beloved life in the South which I often miss (not so much on hot summer days!), I have many mixed feelings about the confederate flag.
I agree w/ Ron - it is a tremendously powerful symbol. A symbol of rebellion and standing for your belief. A symbol of a steadfast love of what you believe to be you country being taken away by others. A symbol of the right of the local/state government against a far-off Federalist approach.
And, a symbol of hundred of thousands of deaths. Literally men committing their life to standing up for what they see as their country.
How can you not respect and stand in awe of that?
I have tremendous, tremendous honor and respect for the Confederacy.

BUT - the truth is, they lost the war. The confederacy is no longer a movement. Nor should it be. Should it be forgotten? no. But that is in the past, and times have changed. That flag has now become a symbol of something that is distorted and different from the original meaning, bastardized from the intent. Unfortunately it is seen by many as a symbol of racism, and is (sadly so) offensive to many, many folks.
I personally believe that it is simply not appropriate to use in any manner that appears to be sanctioned by our a state government (e.g. capitol building). Let it remain a prominent museum piece. Leave it flying high at all the old Confederacy posts. People w/ family heritage from teh Confederacy, if the ywant to fly it, in their own person space, in their own way... fine. But we should not be sanctioning it at a government level, just as we should not be sanctioning prayer.

And, people flying the flag must recognize that, even if they do not agree with it, or think it's stupid, the flat fact is that there are people whom are really bothered by the flag. Not because of what it really meant, but how they perceive it - that fliers are rebels and racists. That opinion/interperetation may be wrong... but it happens, and will continue to happen. So when/if you fly the flag, you should be prepared for this. Just like I decided a long time ago to grow my hair out and stop shaving, I must accept that now people will (mistakenly) assume I am a stoner. It's just how the world works.
 
GONOVRIT said:
View attachment 190182
I'll just leave this here.....
Click to expand...

I do enjoy this scenic view...
But I'd like to stir the pot a little.
Official Flag etiquette (for those Scouts, Military, etc) says you should never use the flag as a piece of clothing. OK to be intact on the clothes, but not distorted, cut up etc AS the clothes. This is considered pretty disrespectful, it really detracts from it as a symbol.
http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2011/07/forth_of_july_guidelines_to_ha.html

So how many folks ere are bothered by this pic for that reason? would you feel the same if it were the US flag?
 
^^^^^^how long did it take you to think up that to throw in the mix?
One gettysburg event back in the 90's we had a lady come down through three brigades of Confederates wearing that top with cut off jean shorts just before we were to march off into the fray. I don't remember hearing one bad remark about it. Now if somebody would have hollered for us to "ralley on the colors",guess it would have been game on!
 
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I myself are torn on the subject. I had ancestors that fought for North Carolina and the Confederacy in which she belonged.Both luckily survived being captured with the fall of Ft.Fisher. One Grandfather's grandfather was a large plantation owner in Sumpter,S.C. so I have that legacy going for me too.
Reenacting wise, my job is to work on weapons while in camp and I float the battalion as a file closer during the battles.When the chips are down and getting pressed,my ass is near the color guard helping to protect the flag. I've had to put myself between some dumbass yankee and the flag more that once to keep a brawl from erupting. Most Federals understand what that flag is and tend not to grab at it or disrespect it but we occasionally get "that guy" who thinks he can grab it and run. When we do federal, we act like we should.
Now I'll step forward 150 years. Several folks on here have made some very good points that I agree with. I lean alot towards what Ron posted. I cringe everytime I see a pickup going down the highway with a 3'x5' St Andrew's cross waving from it's rear. I had a young boy work for me that did that one morning into work. I asked him later in the day why he was doing that and did he even know what that flag is. His responce to the first part...ehhh was typical redneck noise. He responded to the flag question as to it being "the" Confederate flag. I asked which one...he said "the" again. I tried to school him but his ass draggin...no muffler,big tires make big ruts self just couldn't get it. He liked driving around certain sections of Goldsboro with it waving. i was actually hoping somebody would school him a little differently than I did. I felt like he was disrespecting my ancestors and the state of North Carolina doing what he was doing.
Oh and thats me bearing the Colors marking our position while under fire.
 
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To some, it represents a great historical time when our ancestors defied the federal government in an unjust war.
To some, it is a symbol of racial injustice and a slap in the face to black Americans.
To me, its just a symbol from the past. Now.
"If" removing this symbol from the SC capitol would have stopped the Ctown shooter BEFORE he did it.
Then i for would take it down myself by conquest.
"But" It won't change a damn thing. Evil people will always find a way to perform evil.
/Rant Off/
'Dre out...
 
I also think about it like this, perhaps over thinking like I do a lot of things, but in the pre-cival war era, the southern US was essentially fighting to be its own country. Of course they lost and subdued.
What if the same had happened to the whole of the United States during the revolutionary war? Britain tried to control us in every way one could be controlled, but we stood our ground and won our independence against all odds. If that war had turned the other way, would the US just be made into another wrinkle in the pages of history? Would you get frowned at for waving an American flag on your porch by everyone who though the British were right?
 
CLRracer said:
You actually have to start with some facts before you can argue them. You've stated two opinions and half of an incorrect fact. While slavery was a reason for the Civil War, it wasn't about the expansion of slavery, and slavery could be (and has been) argued to have not even been the biggest cause.

Personally I see the arguments both ways. I have flown and occasionally fly a Confederate Battle Flag, but more so now fly a First National Flag when inclined to fly anything other than an American Flag.

Duane
Click to expand...

I am a history major that focused on the Civil War and reconstruction. I can cite many facts, but no one ever wants to hear them on here.
 
If anything, wouldn't our American flag be considered racist before the St. Andrews cross? After all...which one flew over a slave nation for 100 years and the ships that transported slaves across the ocean?

Am I allowed to be upset about the Irish being enslaved? Probably not. Reason being, no one alive is responsible for anything that happened back then.

I've always seen the main reason for the war was state's rights. I'm not sure why everyone thinks it was slavery because there were many Northern slave owners and a whole bunch of slaves ran the up and coming industries of the North.
 
It's about history, the U.S. has LOT'S of history good and bad just like all nations. Racism would be closer to being "history" here if some peeps were not using any and all excuses to declare/try to prove it is unchanged and as common as in the past. Just a look at a pic of the killers face/expression tells me he was insane, just like the boy in Conn. a few years ago.
 
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But...but....you're being racist! :D

Anybody ever notice that all these people that are responsible for these killings have all been on some sort of brain altering medication?
 
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