Debt Problem In This Country

[Cherokeekid88]

I don't know a whole lot about politics, but I understand a little. What do you guys think about this whole raising the debt ceiling thing?

I think that we should stop foreign aid as much and wither away some of the welfare and food stamps....too many damn people getting stuff for free that shouldn't be. SS is a joke....what is the solution here?

Do we just go into debt and see what happens? I mean, I don't think so, but raising the ceiling just seems like a rediculous thing to do.

 

[GubNi]

Yes, adding more debt because we can't pay what we owe is 100% wrong. I have a plan in place to eliminate my debt with goals and a timeline. The gov't should be the same.

To do it we need to stop giving away money to foreign countries and put disabled people to work. Too many people are on disability that could work. We can do this by paying the employer a percentage of the wages depending on the disability since the employer may have to take extra costs to accomidate the employee. If the gov't pays 50% of the wages for someone to work at McDonalds that is cheaper than paying 100% disability, plus we get cheaper burgers. win-win

The next problem is welfare moms. I have a cousin that spits out a new kid every year, and sometimes twice a year. After two kids they should be taken away and put up for adoption. Which should be free to people who want to adopt so Americans will stop adopting kids from other countries.

 

[wvjeepers]

I'm not a Democrat or Republican, I am for common sense in government, but this is some funny stuff.


"The fact that we are here today to debate raising America’s debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the U.S. Government can’t pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government’s reckless fiscal policies.

Over the past 5 years, our federal debt has increased by $3.5 trillion to $8.6 trillion.That is “trillion” with a “T.” That is money that we have borrowed from the Social Security trust fund, borrowed from China and Japan, borrowed from American taxpayers. And over the next 5 years, between now and 2011, the President’s budget will increase the debt by almost another $3.5 trillion.

Numbers that large are sometimes hard to understand. Some people may wonder why they matter. Here is why: This year, the Federal Government will spend $220 billion on interest. That is more money to pay interest on our national debt than we’ll spend on Medicaid and the State Children’s Health Insurance Program. That is more money to pay interest on our debt this year than we will spend on education, homeland security, transportation, and veterans benefits combined. It is more money in one year than we are likely to spend to rebuild the devastated gulf coast in a way that honors the best of America.

And the cost of our debt is one of the fastest growing expenses in the Federal budget. This rising debt is a hidden domestic enemy, robbing our cities and States of critical investments in infrastructure like bridges, ports, and levees; robbing our families and our children of critical investments in education and health care reform; robbing our seniors of the retirement and health security they have counted on.

Every dollar we pay in interest is a dollar that is not going to investment in America’s priorities."

Senator Barack Obama
Senate Floor Speech on Public Debt
March 16, 2006


Seems we have a extreme lack of common sense on both sides lately.

 

[Cherokeekid88]

Gubni - I like your way of thinking. I know people that are disabled as well that could work....I understand, just because you can walk and run and have full funtion of all your limbs doesn't mean you aren't disabled, but someone who CAN sit and needs nothing more than a few breaks throughout the day and time to take meds, should be able to hold down a job even it its part time. Have ambitions to start your own company from home. I also have a 2nd cousin that is constantly trying to find new things wrong with him. He is 46 years old...never had a full time job and for the last 5-6 years has worked 3 days a week at dominos delivering pizzas, untill he thought he had MS...got fired from his job for poor performance, and is collecting unemployment. Went with this whole MS thing, then it turned into Carpels tunnel in both wrist from lifting those pizzas for so many years, then now it has turned to sleep apnea which he says causes him stress and deprived sleep during the day, so he can't work....bottom line...they need to investigate these cases more or the doctors need to stop handing over ok's to pass them for disability.
I hate that it can take a forum load of average people to figure out soemthing that these people are getting paid millions of dollars not to figure out.

 

[UTfball68]

Let's raise the debt limit, to incur more debt, because we can't pay the debt we already owe...yeah that makes sense. Coming from a family that has had a failed business, and skipped a few bills, I woulda loved to have seen what the IRS would say if we brought an argument like that to them. If personal responsibility and accountability is expected of the individual citizen, the government should be held to the same standard.


I've said it before, and I'll say it again, isolationism is a dumb move in a global economy. However, that does not mean, we can't bring back independence. You want jobs back, you want more money circulated...make it stupid easy for business to come back here and do their thing. Tax breaks to the hilt, super low land grants, etc. Make it cheap enough so we're at least competitive, and so labor costs are overlooked. Revenue generation, always helps when you're looking to pay the bills.


Next big thing for me, is eliminate the government handouts to the people that are just too lazy to do anything with themselves. There are people out there that legitimately need help...I get that, but lets start limiting the help to just those people. Put a cap on dollar amount and time that people can receive the hand out, and when they're off, make them repay...if they don't...they can't re-apply until their debt is paid.


I also believe the pork spending and piggy backing on bills has got to stop...not likely with the backroom handshakes, but when you have millions of dollars going to dog turd purification...or something like that, something needs to change. I also believe releasing un-used properties to private domestic investors would be a good idea. Privatizing things like the USPS would do some good as well.

Keep money in the pockets of the people. The best way to circulate money is to let the people spend what they make. I don't believe all taxes should be eliminated, put a flat tax on everything across the board.

And the last key to avert a financial collapse, would be eliminating government outreach and all the unnecessary programs. Billions of dollars go into programs that shouldn't even exist. I'm sure they matter to somebody, but this is a team effort, everyone is all gung-ho about fixing problems until the fix applies to them...get over it.


Bottom line, revenue needs to be generated to pay the bills and wasteful spending needs to be eliminated. Don't spend it, if you don't have it. That is and will always be the key to successful finances.

 

[ManglerYJ]

I'm amazed at what little Congress can get passed that is actually IMPORTANT (i.e. balenced budget, healthcare that actually works, infrastructure set up so that the country runs smoothly, etc) but yet, they somehow passed a law that makes the old-school incandescent lightbulb illegal. I give up.

I'm not anti-American, just disappointed in the government's ineptitude. That goes for both Democrat AND Republican.

 

[Cherokeekid88]

Let's raise the debt limit, to incur more debt, because we can't pay the debt we already owe...yeah that makes sense. Coming from a family that has had a failed business, and skipped a few bills, I woulda loved to have seen what the IRS would say if we brought an argument like that to them. If personal responsibility and accountability is expected of the individual citizen, the government should be held to the same standard.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again, isolationism is a dumb move in a global economy. However, that does not mean, we can't bring back independence. You want jobs back, you want more money circulated...make it stupid easy for business to come back here and do their thing. Tax breaks to the hilt, super low land grants, etc. Make it cheap enough so we're at least competitive, and so labor costs are overlooked. Revenue generation, always helps when you're looking to pay the bills.
Next big thing for me, is eliminate the government handouts to the people that are just too lazy to do anything with themselves. There are people out there that legitimately need help...I get that, but lets start limiting the help to just those people. Put a cap on dollar amount and time that people can receive the hand out, and when they're off, make them repay...if they don't...they can't re-apply until their debt is paid.
I also believe the pork spending and piggy backing on bills has got to stop...not likely with the backroom handshakes, but when you have millions of dollars going to dog turd purification...or something like that, something needs to change. I also believe releasing un-used properties to private domestic investors would be a good idea. Privatizing things like the USPS would do some good as well.
Keep money in the pockets of the people. The best way to circulate money is to let the people spend what they make. I don't believe all taxes should be eliminated, put a flat tax on everything across the board.
And the last key to avert a financial collapse, would be eliminating government outreach and all the unnecessary programs. Billions of dollars go into programs that shouldn't even exist. I'm sure they matter to somebody, but this is a team effort, everyone is all gung-ho about fixing problems until the fix applies to them...get over it.
Bottom line, revenue needs to be generated to pay the bills and wasteful spending needs to be eliminated. Don't spend it, if you don't have it. That is and will always be the key to successful finances.

Very Very Nice!

 

[rockcity]

you can't borrow $ to get yourself out of debt.

When is the last time you got to raise your own credit limit? Funny, the govt is trying to do just that. It creates a conflict of interest when the borrower can raise their own credit limit. There is no "check" to limit this other than about 4 responsible govt officials, and I use the word "responsible" very loosely...

 

[hadfield4wd]

Well our government is a reflection of the people. Our citizens carry way too much debt, live above their means and manage our money poorly. That's when it's our money. When your spending someone elses (like our tax dollars) it's easier to spend.

If we can't control our own spending why should we expect the government too.

 

[rockcity]

The govt should be the example and the leader. They expect us to control our $ (somewhat but getting less and less recently...)

 

[Gmachine]

Well our government is a reflection of the people. Our citizens carry way too much debt, live above their means and manage our money poorly. That's when it's our money. When your spending someone elses (like our tax dollars) it's easier to spend.
If we can't control our own spending why should we expect the government too.

Agreed! The people in this country are doing the very same thing. People better get a handle on things quickly too because when these countries & companies demand their payment now & you don't have it, they own you.

 

[trailhugger]

The debt ceiling is a technicality. The long-term issue is the size and scope of government and growing debt is just a symptom of that.

If we do not raise the debt ceiling by August 2nd, we will not default on Treasury obligations. Nor, will we have trouble making Social Security payments. However, there would be a big drop — roughly 44% — in government spending because that percentage represents the difference between government revenues which would be about $200 billion for the full month of August and $172 billion for August if we start counting after the first week when the deadline hits. Spending is slated to be over $300 billion that month.

Here are the numbers from an excellent and highly detailed study by the Bipartisan Policy Center (BPC) quoted in this piece:

…The BPC study found that the United States is likely to hit the debt limit sometime between August 2 and August 9. “It’s a 44 percent overnight cut in federal spending” if Congress hits the debt limit, [BPC's Jay] Powell said. The BPC study projects there will be $172 billion in federal revenues in August and $307 billion in authorized expenditures. That means there’s enough money to pay for, say, interest on the debt ($29 billion), Social Security ($49.2 billion), Medicare and Medicaid ($50 billion), active duty troop pay ($2.9 billion), veterans affairs programs ($2.9 billion).

That leaves you with about $39 billion to fund (or not fund) the following:

Defense vendors ($31.7 billion)

IRS refunds ($3.9 billion)

Food stamps and welfare ($9.3 billion)

Unemployment insurance benefits ($12.8 billion)

Department of Education ($20.2 billion)

Housing and Urban Development ($6.7 billion)

Other spending, such as Departments of Justice, Labor, Commerce, EPA, HHS ($73.6 billion)

The decision to prioritize payments would fall on the Treasury department, and Powell points out it would be chaotic picking and choosing who gets paid (in full or partially) and who doesn’t…

No doubt picking and choosing who gets paid and who doesn’t would be chaotic. And, lots of programs would not get their funding and that would lead to plenty of screaming. Nonetheless, it should be clear from this exactly how much we are spending in excess of government revenues. And, that could and should lead to a sober assessment of what government can and cannot do.

 

[UTfball68]

Agreed! The people in this country are doing the very same thing. People better get a handle on things quickly too because when these countries & companies demand their payment now & you don't have it, they own you.

I'll agree with that to an extent...in the fact that you could in fact blame the people for putting these people in office.


However, there's a saying that if the bank gives you a $1,000 loan, they own you...but if the bank gives you a $1,000,000,000 loan, you own the bank. Basically meaning, they have so many resources tied up in to you and stretched so thin, they have no recourse to recover their funds and anything you do or don't do can affect their survival. I'm not saying the U.S. should stop paying their debt, but it would be interesting to see what would happen if we stopped paying the interest...terrible foreign relations and ruin credibility for sure...but would it help the economy bounce back.

 

[hadfield4wd]

The govt should be the example and the leader. They expect us to control our $ (somewhat but getting less and less recently...)

It should be, but it never will be.

We can't rely on the government to lead us. In general we can only change ourselves. So that is where we need to start. If people wait until government sets a good example then we'll never get started. We didn't get in this mess overnight and we won't get out overnight.

A government is basically a big business. Apparently it's ok to run "our" business without balancing a budget.

 

[GubNi]

If the gov't defaults and doesn't pay could this lead to a disruption in basic utility services and the fall of our society?

 

[Ron]

When in a hole, the first step to extraction is to stop digging.

 

[upnover]

We need fair trade, not free trade. If any country sells something to us, then they should buy equally from us.
We need to use our own resources rather than depend on someone else's. This would put the farmers, textile workers, Furniture workers, oil refineries, steel mills, among a few, back to work
Getting any type of government assistance should take more than filling out some paper work to obtain. You should have a panel of case workers to make the determination of if you need it, or not. If it comes down to it, you would be fed, and housed. In government housing, ran and overseen my the military. Required to work making uniforms, or something for the military. Housing would be supplied by any government buildings that are vacant. Such as the building that are currently being demolished in Morganton at this moment Buildings at Broughton Hospital. If you want out, you will work yourself out, by becoming self sufficient. Don't want in, then families will have to take care of their own. Other cultures do it, so why can't we?
No country from the outside of the USA should be able to sell the same product cheaper inside the USA, than we can.
Alternative fuels, should be readily available to use. Canada does it with propane, why can't we?
There should be a tax break for those companies who use less fuels, Like trucking using bio diesel or Grease to move their wares.
Fuel costs should be more competitive. The big guys should not be able to say what they are going to charge. There is no reason that CEO's and such should be making more than they could possibly spend. Athletes, should not be making anywhere near what they do, to play a game. Paid good yes, but millions a year? I don't think so.
Our military should line our borders. Sure come to visit, but don't come here to take our jobs and other resources.
Our military should be in OUR oceans, patrolling our seas to keep out the drugs and so forth.
Make prisons a place you don't want to be.

 

[drkelly]

When in a hole, the first step to extraction is to stop digging.

LOL, classic!

The government is trying to maintain the standard of living that americans have become accustomed to. The problem is that they have allowed many of the good jobs that created that high standard of living to leave the country.

 

[UTfball68]

We need fair trade, not free trade. If any country sells something to us, then they should buy equally from us..

That's not how a global economy works. You don't go to the store and expect them to buy something from you, do you?

We need to use our own resources rather than depend on someone else's. This would put the farmers, textile workers, Furniture workers, oil refineries, steel mills, among a few, back to work.

I'm there with you, but it's the American people that drove them out. As Americans, we wanted to drive costs down and get products as cheaply as possible. I don't know of very many folks voluteering to take pay cuts just so the product they produce can say Made in the USA. Given there are other factors that played a role, but business was entirely to expensive to conduct over with labor costs and ever increasing taxes and stipulations trying to regulate big business. So America drove the American businesses away.

Getting any type of government assistance should take more than filling out some paper work to obtain. You should have a panel of case workers to make the determination of if you need it, or not. .

I agree it should be waaaay tougher to get assistance, but who should have the right as to what's necessary. I'll agree that certain 'luxuries' shouldn't be accessible while on the assistance, but I think there are too many if's and but's out there, and I don't think you could build template as to what's necessary for all people.

If it comes down to it, you would be fed, and housed. In government housing, ran and overseen my the military. Required to work making uniforms, or something for the military. Housing would be supplied by any government buildings that are vacant. Such as the building that are currently being demolished in Morganton at this moment Buildings at Broughton Hospital. .

That seems a little socialistic to me. IMO, no need to infringe on anybody's civil liberties...let them sink or swim, soon enough, people will start getting the picture.

If you want out, you will work yourself out, by becoming self sufficient. .

Agreed 100%

No country from the outside of the USA should be able to sell the same product cheaper inside the USA, than we can..

Back to that pesky global economy thing again. I find it funny how most scream deregulation deregulation deregulation...but their first solution to the problem is to regulate.

There should be a tax break for those companies who use less fuels, Like trucking using bio diesel or Grease to move their wares..

All for tax breaks...but here again, the problem is where's the incentive??? It's great to promote movements, but if a company invests several million into a project, what good is a one time lump sum grant or tax credit. Even if there are annual benefits, how long before, or will they ever recognize the benefits and break even...much less start seeing extra coin in their pocket.

Fuel costs should be more competitive. The big guys should not be able to say what they are going to charge. There is no reason that CEO's and such should be making more than they could possibly spend. Athletes, should not be making anywhere near what they do, to play a game. Paid good yes, but millions a year? I don't think so..

Again with the socialism...what happened to this being the land of opportunity? I doubt very much that you'd like it if someone that makes less than you where you work, says you make too much for your position. I'd bet everyone here would tell that person to fawk off because you did what was necessary to get there, you put in the time and effort and work to get you where you are, and you're gonna take everything you can get for it. And when it comes to these big evil CEO's, same thing, they got there by doing what needed to get done, why do they deserve any less. These big companies were once small companies that did the right things to put them in the positions they're in today. But you want to say congrat for succeeding, now you're gonna be punished for it??? I don't think so.

Our military should line our borders. .

Agreed...

Sure come to visit, but don't come here to take our jobs and other resources..

Take our jobs?????? Americans handed over their jobs. To proud to work minimum wage, don't want to take that $10/hr construction job with no bennies. And from what you previously said, there are apparently enough people that don't even want to work, and would rather live off the government.

Our military should be in OUR oceans, patrolling our seas to keep out the drugs and so forth..

Agreed

Make prisons a place you don't want to be.

Couldn't agree more. This is where I believe civil liberties should be infringed upon. Make prison a deterrent again. I say cram as many people in that should be there. I think they should be a free labor source and should truly re-pay their debt to society.

 

[upnover]

This downfall begin many years ago, it didn't happen in the last decade, it just keeps getting handed down. Bottom line, it can't be fixed unless there is a hard line to fix it. It won't be good for many, it won't be fun, but it has to be done. regulatory, yes, socialistic, probably, but that is what it may take to get us back on track.
Or we keep on going until we are The United States of China

 

[RatLabGuy]

While I'm prett s ure most of us agree that we need to cut back on both the spending and the borrowing, the current problem facing us right now is this (somewhat arbitrary) limit to the borrowing that is written into law.
That has to be addressed RIGHT NOW to avoid a pretty major disaster - the ideals of scaling back etc are great but take time to really go into effect and hash out reasonable details.

The problem at the moment is that we are accumulating debt daily. If we cross the line, we stop paying the debts and go into default. That causes the US credit rating to go bad, which means a lot of bad things - higher interest rates for everybody, devalued currency, etc. This will push the already crappy economy completely into the shitter.

So the final truth is, we cannot let that happen. They WILL have to raise the limit. It's not a solution but at least buys time for solutions to take effect. Everything going on between now and that deadline is people jockeying for political press.

 

[GubNi]

If they raise the limit then we will fight the same problem in x number of months from now. Nobody wants to be the bad guy and make real changes that the masses will hate.

 

[Ben West]

"They WILL have to raise the limit. It's not a solution but at least buys time for solutions to take effect."

you might be right but.....
once they raise the debt ceiling they will forget all about cutting back, all they will see is that they have more money to spend. so back to spending until they hit the debt ceilng again, then what... raise it again? i mean shit thats what has been happening for years now isn't it?

.

 

[drkelly]

If they raise the limit then we will fight the same problem in x number of months from now. Nobody wants to be the bad guy and make real changes that the masses will hate.

x2

 

[shawn]

The problem at the moment is that we are accumulating debt daily. If we cross the line, we stop paying the debts and go into default. That causes the US credit rating to go bad, which means a lot of bad things - higher interest rates for everybody, devalued currency, etc. This will push the already crappy economy completely into the shitter.

That's actually not how it works.

The Treasury is expected to take in somewhere between $200-250B in tax revenue during the month of August.

Interest on the national debt (the shit we have to pay to prevent 'default') costs $30B per month.

Social security costs about $50B.

Medicare and Medicaid cost about $50B.

Active duty military and the VA cost about $6B.

That leaves us with an easy $30-35B per month left over, with which Treasury is obligated to decide who gets paid and who doesn't. Again, keep that in mind the next time you hear Obama or Geithner saying that they're not sure they'll be able to cut SS checks come August b/c of the Republicans -- it's a blatant lie.

But anyway, $30-35B next month left over to pay all the shit that the Fed gov usually pays for, including all the Executive departments (Labor, Commerce, EPA, Justice, DOE, etc), unemployment benefits, food stamps, and all the rest.

Moreover, they could still sell bonds to finance the social security checks, because SS debt is a special sort of security (intragovernmental holdings) that doesn't count against the debt limit.