Deck stairway advice

[Lurch830]

I'm going to redo the handrails around my deck this fall, and figured I'd add a stairway down to the backyard while I'm at it. My concern is that I have a walk-out basement so the deck is 11' off the ground and the recent post got me thinking I'd like some advice making sure my plan won't fall apart...

The deck is 12' wide & 16' long. The door is near one corner which is also a chamfer which cuts that side to 14' long. I want the stairs to be 4' wide and have a 4'x4' landing at the top of the stairs flush with the deck (EDIT: the top landing would be secured to the house wall & existing deck). I also want to add another 4'x4' landing in the middle since I'm not sure I could get 20' 2"x12"s. The rise will be 7.75" with a run of 10.5" & a 1"-1.5" lip/overhang, this should be 17 steps and a total length of ~21'. I'd support the middle landing with 4"x4"s at each corner anchored into the ground and tie it into the nearby 6"x6" deck support. And the tread would be supported with 3-4 stringers. In the sketches, the black lines are the existing deck, the orange lines are the landings/supports & the red lines are the steps. The only thing I'm not sure about is how to tie the top landing joists to the existing joists.

Any tips, tricks or advice?

 

[lockedup5]

Don't know if your concerned about code but I'm pretty sure 7.25" is max rise.plus you'll leave more meat on the back side of your stringers.
Have the top of your deck be the last step

 

[Lurch830]

Don't know if your concerned about code but I'm pretty sure 7.25" is max rise.plus you'll leave more meat on the back side of your stringers. Have the top of your deck be the last step

Yeah, I thought the standard was 7" rise & 11" run, but when I looked online they say 7-8" is normal and the stairs in my house have an 8" rise & 10-11" run (built in '01) so I wanted something similar so there weren't different stair heights on the property.
Could you explain what you mean when you say have the top of the deck be the last step? Not sure I'm following...

 

[Loganwayne]

Use 6x6s for the landing also. The landing is going to be supporting a lot of weight from the top set of steps

 

[moldman05]

Metal joist hangers would be good way to tie in landing joists to existing deck at the top. I would make sure corners of top landing are secured to existing with extra bolts or straps because stairs will be pulling laterally a little. Also make sure all risers end up same height. Humans adjust to first step. If there is a change it tends to make you stumble.

 

[RobMcBee]

If I was building this, and I'm understanding the question correctly, I would build the top landing separate, sitting on its own supports, and then lag or through bolt it to the existing deck. I've seen 4x4s used at that kind of height, but like said above 6x6s won't wobble and will feel much more stable.

 

[jeepinmatt]

I'd put in a fireman's pole and then go back upstairs through the basement!


Plus it'd be a lot cheaper and faster!

 

[Lurch830]

Use 6x6s for the landing also. The landing is going to be supporting a lot of weight from the top set of steps

I forgot to mention this in the original post, the top landing will be tied to the house just like the deck is. Should I still use 6x6s? The middle landing will be ~6' off the ground.

Metal joist hangers would be good way to tie in landing joists to existing deck at the top. I would make sure corners of top landing are secured to existing with extra bolts or straps because stairs will be pulling laterally a little. Also make sure all risers end up same height. Humans adjust to first step. If there is a change it tends to make you stumble.

I was planning on using metal joist hangers everywhere even though I'm not 100% sure the existing deck does. I was just worried if I needed to add more joists (not the right word) parallel to the house wall to tie the landing to the deck even though I'll be securing the top landing to the house.

If I was building this, and I'm understanding the question correctly, I would build the top landing separate, sitting on its own supports, and then lag or through bolt it to the existing deck. I've seen 4x4s used at that kind of height, but like said above 6x6s won't wobble and will feel much more stable.

Would you still advise building the top landing separate if it was tied to the house? Meant to say that earlier, but forgot...

I'd put in a fireman's pole and then go back upstairs through the basement!


Plus it'd be a lot cheaper and faster!

I thought about just installing a metal spiral staircase, but all the houses in the neighborhood have wooden staircases and I'd like to keep them uniform if possible. Plus this will be easier on my bum knee when letting the dog outside.

 

[RobMcBee]

So these steps will run between the house and the deck? Is there any way you could post a pic of where you are wanting to build? From the drawings I thought that they were going on an outer edge of the deck.

If it is going between the house and deck, then you could just use joist hangers between the rim joist of the house and deck.

 

[mommucked]

Frame the landings double banded, 2 2x 8-10s etc on each side to build a box, alternate/stagger the the butt joints of the inner and outer box of the landings. If the deck is not double banded where the landing will attach then add another 2x8-10 etc to it and through bolt the landing to the side of the deck w glavanized bolts. Posts under all 4 corners would be best, 4x6posts work well also if code allows them, they can be notched to support the double band w wood sticking up to nail to the outside or inside of the band ( - L ) If the landing is in the corner of the deck/house you would maybe only need posts at the stair side of the landing away from the house and the inside corner of the deck/landing w the bolts through the 4 boards where the deck meets the landing also supporting it, along w attaching the landing to the house, big framing nails w be fine for that assuming there is a band/rim joist on the house.

 

[Loganwayne]

I would use 6x6. 4x4 tend to bow, warp and twist. You can get some timber locks and go threw your double band into to the stringers but I would also still use clips

 

[Lurch830]

So these steps will run between the house and the deck? Is there any way you could post a pic of where you are wanting to build? From the drawings I thought that they were going on an outer edge of the deck.

If it is going between the house and deck, then you could just use joist hangers between the rim joist of the house and deck.

Pics attached of what I'm wanting to do. The steps will connect to the house & deck and drop the 11' to the ground below. I've had a few, so the colors aren't consistent...the new ones are green (handrail) & black (where the top landing would tie to the house).

Frame the landings double banded, 2 2x 8-10s etc on each side to build a box, alternate/stagger the the butt joints of the inner and outer box of the landings. If the deck is not double banded where the landing will attach then add another 2x8-10 etc to it and through bolt the landing to the side of the deck w glavanized bolts. Posts under all 4 corners would be best, 4x6posts work well also if code allows them, they can be notched to support the double band w wood sticking up to nail to the outside or inside of the band ( - L ) If the landing is in the corner of the deck/house you would maybe only need posts at the stair side of the landing away from the house and the inside corner of the deck/landing w the bolts through the 4 boards where the deck meets the landing also supporting it, along w attaching the landing to the house, big framing nails w be fine for that assuming there is a band/rim joist on the house.

Is double banded like doubled-up? If not, got any pictures/sketches? I'm more of a visual person

I would use 6x6. 4x4 tend to bow, warp and twist. You can get some timber locks and go threw your double band into to the stringers but I would also still use clips

10-4, I guess 6x6 it is. Are the clips you're referring to the metal joist hangers?

 

[Loganwayne]

Yes sorry. I would also consider freestanding the top platform unless you can bolt the band to the houses band. You will need to remove siding. You could still screw the porch band to the houses band but not as strong and threw bolted

 

[RobMcBee]

Yeah I'd still build it as a separate unit and through bolt it to the deck. being that far out in the middle of the joist it will sag. Building it as its own structure won't put any weight or stress on the deck.

Double banded is like it sounds, it's two rim joist or band joist. Decks.com has a lot of info.

 

[Lurch830]

Yes sorry. I would also consider freestanding the top platform unless you can bolt the band to the houses band. You will need to remove siding. You could still screw the porch band to the houses band but not as strong and threw bolted

That was my original paln, remove the siding, flash around the where the landing would tie to the house and secure.

Yeah I'd still build it as a separate unit and through bolt it to the deck. being that far out in the middle of the joist it will sag. Building it as its own structure won't put any weight or stress on the deck.
View attachment 188167

So you're saying don't tie it to the house at all? Wouldn't bolting it to the deck next to the house put some stress on the deck?

 

[RobMcBee]

Not if it's basically a free standing unit. It'll support itself. The only reason you are connecting it to the deck is to tie them together. Not for any support from the deck.

Here's a crappy drawing

 

[Lurch830]

Not if it's basically a free standing unit. It'll support itself. The only reason you are connecting it to the deck is to tie them together. Not for any support from the deck.

Gotcha, for some reason last night I didn't grasp free standing as having its own supports...I'm an idiot.
I may have to go back to the drawing board since I didn't want to add supports that close to the house.

 

[RobMcBee]

Gotcha, for some reason last night I didn't grasp free standing as having its own supports...I'm an idiot.
I may have to go back to the drawing board since I didn't want to add supports that close to the house.

LOL I'm not saying my way is the best way, Im sure there are some on here that would/could come up with a better solution. I tend to over build stuff, especially when your talking about 11-12 feet off the ground. Doing it this way would give you good solid material (6x6's) to tie your railing into and give you the extra support for your stringers. Giving you a solid feeling staircase.

 

[drkelly]

If the upper landing is attached to the deck on one side, and the house on the adjacent side, it seems like at the most you would need one 6x6 at the outer corner of the top landing. Then of course four of them for the mid-way landing.

 

[Lurch830]

LOL I'm not saying my way is the best way, Im sure there are some on here that would/could come up with a better solution. I tend to over build stuff, especially when your talking about 11-12 feet off the ground. Doing it this way would give you good solid material (6x6's) to tie your railing into and give you the extra support for your stringers. Giving you a solid feeling staircase.

I like over built stuff, it will typically outlast the regular stuff! This has talked me into using 6x6s for the supports instead of 4x4s.

If the upper landing is attached to the deck on one side, and the house on the adjacent side, it seems like at the most you would need one 6x6 at the outer corner of the top landing. Then of course four of them for the mid-way landing.

That's along the lines of what I was thinking, I just didn't want to have any supports for the landing at the house if I could help it. It may be unavoidable though...

I kind of studied my immediate neighbors to see how they were done. One neighbor has ~6' wide stairs off the 14' long side of the deck with no supports anywhere, but his yard is steeper than mine and it is probably ~8' of drop from the deck to where the stairs meet the ground. The other is much more similar to my situation and they just continued the stairs (~4' wide) right off the end of the deck (12' side) with two 4x4 supports at ~3'. Their steps are also much steeper than I'd like...possibly 9" rise & 10" run? I don't like either of those options for me due to my yard layout. Directly off the stairs would put the stairway & the ramp to my shed almost touching & off the side would touchdown beside the AC units.

 

[Loganwayne]

If you are worried about taking up to much yard space you could always run it down the side of the house to the middle landing and 90 it out into yard. Or double the width of the the middle landing and 180 steeps with them ending up about where they started, under the deck

 

[lockedup5]

what I was saying is figure your top stringer step 7.25''(or whatever your rise hight is and dont forget to figure for the step board thickness) from the top of your deck and hang the steps off the back side of your outside band board. If you bring the top step straight out from the deck/landing it will throw your hand rail height off on the top step. I guess really it will be shorter on all steps. it will just be a big difference from the banister height to the handrail height.

 

[Lurch830]

If you are worried about taking up to much yard space you could always run it down the side of the house to the middle landing and 90 it out into yard. Or double the width of the the middle landing and 180 steeps with them ending up about where they started, under the deck

I had thought about a 180*, but didn't like the idea of it dumping out into the house wall. I was looking at everything and then came up with the sketch below. This will allow any future owners to extend the deck the full length of the house if desired. I don't think I'd need any 6x6s at the top since I could use the deck as the top step and its inline with the existing 6x6s. Any thoughts?

what I was saying is figure your top stringer step 7.25''(or whatever your rise hight is and dont forget to figure for the step board thickness) from the top of your deck and hang the steps off the back side of your outside band board. If you bring the top step straight out from the deck/landing it will throw your hand rail height off on the top step. I guess really it will be shorter on all steps. it will just be a big difference from the banister height to the handrail height.

The new idea would use the deck as the last step. I didn't even think about the banister height...good point!

 

[lockedup5]

yes use the deck as the last step. the top step of the stringer will be 8''+/-below the top of the deck

 

[mommucked]

Can't see the rest of the house in the pic ( is that a bay window ) but I think it would be better to run the stairs w the side of the house. You would lose at least 4' of length of the stairs by eliminating the top landing and stepping down right off the deck. Add a band to the rim joist and some blocking ( Robs first pic ) and posts under the widened rimjoist where the stairs attach to the deck and come on down, leave the stairs a bit off the side of the house and you don't have to touch the siding. You would also have better access under the deck from the yard and better airflow under there as the alongside stairs/landing would cut off access to underneath except right against the house under the landing / stairs, and the bottom of the stairs.