Diagnose This Noise :-)

lomodyj

lomodyj

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Mar 21, 2005
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Out in the Middle
Gonna start doing some checking on the CTD tomorrow. Wanted to get some ideas as for things to check. I'm pretty sure I poked a hole in the piston...but I want to check the "simple fixes" first before calling it dead.

The dealer pulled the codes, nothing came up. The oil looks pretty good and is not missing any.

Some of the symptoms. Sounds like it's "running on 5 cylinders", Smoke (white on start up) from tail pipe (was black when I shut it down in WV). Liquid seeping from all gaskets at the #5 cyl. (head to exhaust manifold, exhaust to turbo, turbo to exhaust brake), can't tell if it's fuel (deisel or grease) or oil. Hard start (cranks for a long time, and I usually have to give it a little fuel pedal).

I'll see if there is any air push from the oil fill cap or the lower burp tube when running.
I'll check the fuel filters.
I'll pull the valve cover on the #5 cyl.

Any other thoughts on what to check before I pull the motor out?

Truck info; 1996 Dodge CTD 12v 167K miles, ~2000 miles on grease conversion. Was hauling the YJ through WV and had the pyro up in the 900-950 range several times with down hill cools only getting it to the 700 range before we had to start going back up...Pyro is just after the Jakebrake at the down pipe.
 
noise

The best way to determine your problem is to pull the exhaust manifold a few inches from the head. A burnt piston will leave aluminum deposits in the exhaust port and will be obviously different from the other 5 cylinders. A dead cylinder will have a different "look" also.
 
lomodyj said:
Gonna start doing some checking on the CTD tomorrow. Wanted to get some ideas as for things to check. I'm pretty sure I poked a hole in the piston...but I want to check the "simple fixes" first before calling it dead.
The dealer pulled the codes, nothing came up. The oil looks pretty good and is not missing any.
Some of the symptoms. Sounds like it's "running on 5 cylinders", Smoke (white on start up) from tail pipe (was black when I shut it down in WV). Liquid seeping from all gaskets at the #5 cyl. (head to exhaust manifold, exhaust to turbo, turbo to exhaust brake), can't tell if it's fuel (deisel or grease) or oil. Hard start (cranks for a long time, and I usually have to give it a little fuel pedal).
I'll see if there is any air push from the oil fill cap or the lower burp tube when running.
I'll check the fuel filters.
I'll pull the valve cover on the #5 cyl.
Any other thoughts on what to check before I pull the motor out?
Truck info; 1996 Dodge CTD 12v 167K miles, ~2000 miles on grease conversion. Was hauling the YJ through WV and had the pyro up in the 900-950 range several times with down hill cools only getting it to the 700 range before we had to start going back up...Pyro is just after the Jakebrake at the down pipe.
Click to expand...
Diagnose This Noise :)

:rolleyes:
:lol: A turkey fryer gone bad?????:shaking:
 
Greg is right, could be either injector or IP failure as well. With the engine running crack the fuel lines running to the injectors. Listen to the engine - if the engine tune changes, that injector is good. If the engine doesn't changes, then there's you bad cylinder. This would work if you have a whole in a piston as well (no compression). Do you have any blow-by? White smoke coming from blow by tube?
 
What I've check so far today:

Took all the grease out of the system, pulled fuel filter, primed new one with dino-diesel, pumped up the lifter pump. I can hear a "squishing" noise, after 10-15 pumps, down near it...but can't find a leak of air or fuel...will continue to search there later. Got the truck running, cracked the fitting on each injector, engine would loose it's cadence when each was opened, even # 5.

There is almost no air coming out the bottom puke tube. There is some smoke from the oil filler neck, but not much air movement. It won't build pressure on my hand.

Has white smoke, though not much from tail pipe, more than I've had before.

The motor sounds "louder" than it has before with the hood up...but that may be me getting used to Jon's 24v.

Gonna try to hook up my compression tester to the injector port on 5...If I can find a way to make the injector puller tool.

Any other thoughts?
 
Retraction: Went and checked all the injectors again...the motor makes no noticeable change in sound or vibration when I loosen the fitting on the #5 injector.
 
Lomodyj,

Looks like number five injector is probably going out on you - if you haven't got the injector out yet let me know - give me your number and I'll call you
 
Got the #4 and #5 injectors out...what a PITA not sure they should look like this...

#4 on right #5 on left

Dodge005.jpg

Dodge006.jpg
 
Galen,

Do not clean them up with a rag or anything - you need to cover them with wax paper - the orfices are very small in the end of those and if they get clogged, it's new injector time. Let me know how the compression test works out. RD
 
Couldn't find enough fittings to get my compression tester to fit in the injector hole. Stuck my fingers in the #4 and #5 holes...felt about the same pressure for several engine revolutions...I'll be ordering some new injectors and starting from there...

Thanks RDDC for the phone call...
 
lomodyj said:
Couldn't find enough fittings to get my compression tester to fit in the injector hole. Stuck my fingers in the #4 and #5 holes...felt about the same pressure for several engine revolutions...I'll be ordering some new injectors and starting from there...
Thanks RDDC for the phone call...
Click to expand...
You pull the VC and see what they look like? Rockers look OK?
J
 
How about swap the #4 and #5 injectors and see if the #4 cylinder then runs weird and #5 is OK. That would tell you if the problem is just the #5 injector.
 
No real way to tell if a certain cyl is running bad. Only been suspicious of the #5 because of the moisture around the gaskets...Don't want to stress the gaskets on 4 with the 5 injector...
 
Easiest way to remove the injectors is to use a short (3/4 - 1") long piece of PVC pipe. Drop it over the injector after the nut is off, and thread a lug nut onto it, the injector will pop right out.

P.S. My OEM injectors with ~255k on them looked better than either of those...

Make sure that injector hole is CLEAN before you put one back in there...
 
lomodyj said:
Couldn't find enough fittings to get my compression tester to fit in the injector hole. Stuck my fingers in the #4 and #5 holes...felt about the same pressure for several engine revolutions...I'll be ordering some new injectors and starting from there...
Thanks RDDC for the phone call...
Click to expand...


Galen, Are you using a DIESEL compression gauge ? were talking upwards of 400-500 PSI if you have good compression. THis will blow the gauge off a 'normal' compression gauge.

If you need one for a diesel, I'll be out near RDU tomorrow afternoon I believe, I'll let you borrow mine. The earlier I know the better, as I'll need to borrow the B series adapter from a friend. ( seems to be the only adapter I don't have)

Check your PM's for contact info.
 
400-500 sheesh...didn't think it was that high...I'll call in the am, grab that adapter. We will work something out for pick up.

So what injectors? bosch 70's? bosch 90's?
 
If you can find a low-milage set of 215's (OEM on the '96-'98 manual trans trucks), those would be good.

After that, power either gets expensive to keep it clean, or hot & dirty if you want cheap (Marine 370's)

Don't bother with the Marine 300's, BTW. No one I've ever seen has kept 'em in for more than a year.

Never heard injectors called 70's or 90's... unless you mean HP? Those are usually for the 24v guys. our injector choices are more limited.

Have fun with #6. :D (Still easier than a 'stroke tho)

oh, i get the same "squishy noise" when using the primer button - you're forcing fuel through the lines. Been told it's normal.

White smoke out the pipe can also indicate something as minor as slipped timing... Which can also make for hard starts, low power, funky idle, higher EGT's, etc...

But you need a new head gasket anyway... pop the head and end all the speculation! :D
 
Rich said:
If you can find a low-milage set of 215's (OEM on the '96-'98 manual trans trucks), those would be good.
After that, power either gets expensive to keep it clean, or hot & dirty if you want cheap (Marine 370's)
Don't bother with the Marine 300's, BTW. No one I've ever seen has kept 'em in for more than a year.
Click to expand...

The Lovely Jeep Wife is paying...willing to get the "right" injectors!

Rich said:
Never heard injectors called 70's or 90's... unless you mean HP? Those are usually for the 24v guys. our injector choices are more limited.
Have fun with #6. :D (Still easier than a 'stroke tho)
oh, i get the same "squishy noise" when using the primer button - you're forcing fuel through the lines. Been told it's normal.
White smoke out the pipe can also indicate something as minor as slipped timing... Which can also make for hard starts, low power, funky idle, higher EGT's, etc...
But you need a new head gasket anyway... pop the head and end all the speculation! :D
Click to expand...

Not gonna go the head gasket route...if I can. Will check compression, if it's close on #5 to the rest, I'll put in new injectors and run with it. This truck is supposed to be cheap...dagnabit!

Bosch 70 injectors
Bosch 90 injectors
 
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