Diesel Waggy, got a lot of questions

JTwthaXJ

JTwthaXJ

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 12, 2007
Location
Raleigh
Okay guys I decided to start collecting parts for this build a number of months ago, thus far

1988 Grand Wagoneer, runs (but has a spun rod bearing, and I'm parting out the drive train)
1996 Dodge Ram 2500 gen II 6bt with all accessories brackets turbo etc
2006 Ford 5r110 (5spd auto trans)
2006 Ford NP271F transfer case
2006 Ford Dana 60 with manual hubs
2006 Ford Sterling 10.5 Rear end

I would like to use radius/control arms up front with coil-overs, keep the rear end leaf sprung, and run 39/40 inch tires. The fourwheeler build I was following that mercenary offroad did a couple of years ago is the closest thing I can find to what I want to do. I spoke with Todd from Mercenary Offroad yesterday, and asked what his suggestions would be if he were to do it again? He said to over build the frame, he said he still got a ton of twisting even with what he did. I am considering a rectangular tube chassis, thoughts? He also suggested a beefy cradle under the engine, but also tieing the shock mounts together if I wanted to run coil overs. Fire away, I want to build this as a capable offroad machine, but I am going for a beast of a daily driver. Well something that gets better mileage than my stroked XJ...

thanks,

J
 
I'm not too familiar with the 5R110 but it's electronically controlled which means you will have to utilize the OEM controller or source an aftermarket controller. Either way, it will require throttle position, temp, etc. inputs which may be troublesome to integrate with the 6BT. Probably can be done but it usually gets pretty expensive pretty quick trying to buy sensors or convert factory Cummins ones to integrate with a Ford controller. Someone may know more specifics about that setup but that is what I read from it.

Those axles are probably the new beef way to go. D60's with kingpins of yesteryear are getting hard to find cheap anymore. Sure you don't get real bearings but the new axles are pretty stout as is.

I like your build idea. I think that engine is way too much for that chassis though. Full boxing would be minimum where a custom frame would be ideal but time consuming. Forget wheeling, the sheer weight of a real diesel and 1 tons will make it sweat just going down the road. Maybe something one size smaller like a 3.9L Isuzu or Cummins, dare I say a Mercedes? Are you looking for something usable or just to make max power and blow black smoke which seems to be the norm these days?
 
I cant say that you will likely get better mileage than your XJ is. You can only fling a brick down the road so efficiently.

There was someone on here with a cummins swapped FSJ. Not sure what their name is though.

Likely the cheapest thing is to use the dodge frame, and put the waggy body on it. If you wanted to build your own frame, I would look at use box tubing similar in size to the factory dodge rails.
 
Destroked.com makes a lot of parts to install the 5.9 into the powerstoked fords, so the controller is handled. The shifter is my only remaining concern there. As far as using rectangular tubing for the frame, what size the f350 donor is 6x3 ish and about 1/4" thick near the motor, the FSJ is about 6x4, but not nearly that beefy. I was pricing out 6x3x1/4. With that and crossmembers could I build a reliable and sturdy enough frame for the powerplant? (Asssuming cradle under the oil pan, and essentially a strut bar connect shock hoops.)
 
That is probably enough beef to suffice with that kinda of weight and power. What kind of frame height are you thinking? I believe that engine is damn near 3' tall if not a few inches over. Will that physically clear the hood while giving you enough height from oil pan to axle?

Even if you get everything to work do you need that much weight and power in this kind of package? Wheelbase is rather short to do any serious towing where you would need 5.9 power. You run into liability if you are pulling and are over your GVWR which is a wash with a custom frame. Just seems like better choices in this application.
 
I like it OP. It may not climb every shelf a buggy would, but it can be made to be a great rig.
 
For you guys that have change your auto trans to anything other than a 3 speed auto, what have you guys used for a shifter? I need a shifter that gives me a different pattern from PRND21. I found http://www.kilduffmachine.com which seems pretty legit, thoughts?
 
Go full on custom modeled after the new dodge trucks: use a turn knob shifter! Electric motor attached to the cable or direct to the linkage. That'd be pretty trick in a custom rig. Or model it after the old barracudas (sp?), have a push button setup. I'll shut up now.....
 
Very cool rig in that article, but damn the weight! 6,717 lbs isn't going to make a great trail rig. I'm also very skeptical of the mid to high 20's mpg. No matter what, I think it is a cool project that you are building.
 
I get a consistent 18.5mpg out of my CUCV, I can get 20, best I've gotten is 22. I've also done several mods to squeeze all the power and mileage out of it that I can manage. I'm running a VE motor though whereas yours is a P-Pump motor, fuel mileage varies a bit.

Personally, I'd just run a beefed up 47RH and whatever t-case you wanted to put behind that. You'll save a small fortune on the adapter plates, flexplate, and transmission controller since it can be set up with two switches.

800 for the adapter
625 for the flex plate
850 for the trans controller

Just a thought. You could sell off the 5R110/271 setup and get a different trans/t-case combo.
 
I put a cummins in a fsj a couple years ago. It was a fun project but NOT good off road vehicle. I ended up flopping it at URE. That engine is way too heavy to put in a fsj and have a good off road rig. Front heavy. I have since bought a 77 Waggy and put a LQ4 in it. Much better off road.

Low CG and longer wheelbase will help. Getting low CG and keeping the front diff out the oil pan will be challenging.

http://fsjnetwork.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=23
 
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Lobie, what did you do for the frame? In talking to Todd from mercenary offroad, he made me weary of just boxing and plating. I want this to be beastly but it will primarily be a DD, so I can go nuts with the XJ. I liked the way Todd kept the GW low, but in making it a DD I'd prefer to make the front end coilover with radius arms or four link, and keep leafs in the rear.
 
I didn't do anything to the frame. I think boxing it would be good. The front to the tranny crossmember is boxed from the factory.
In my build I used 06 superduty axles and kept the front radius arms. I wouldn't spend the money on coil overs for a DD.
 
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