Disappearing oil??

skyhighZJ

skyhighZJ

Gov retirement < needs to live
Joined
May 31, 2012
Location
Aberdeen, NC.
My neighbor here at Fort Polk has a 2008 scion TC and between oil changes he is losing almost 2qts of oil. Approx 90,000 miles on it now, he bought it used about 20,000 miles ago. He is very meticulous and changes oil (synthetic) and filter like clockwork. No blue smoke out the pipe and the plugs don't look too bad either. I have crawled all over, under, and around the engine and it is not leaking ANYWHERE. I googled the interwebs and apparently it is a known problem that toyota vehemently denies (of course). I'm wondering if anyone else has had this problem and if so have you had any recourse with the dealership or otherwise?? Thanks.
 
It's going somewhere, maybe the catalytic converter is doing its job and collecting it, hence lack of blue smoke. It should clog up, then you'll get a check engine light for oxygen sensor. That's my theory, based on my similar experience with a 05 dodge caravan. We bought it new, traded it in, well out of warranty at 8yrs, 100kmiles.
 
That sounds like piston rings. For some background, a small amount of oil burning at high temperatures in a modern engine with a high compression ratio can burn without visibly smoking. Oil burning at lower combustion temps in older engines (and/or modern engines with a low compression ratio) or from valve guide seals where it's getting hot but not really burning much, etc., is what usually makes blue smoke.

FYI, Toyota has been doing a Limited Service Campaign on that car (among others) for excessive oil consumption. It's apparently a piston and ring replacement if they approve it.
ZE7 Warranty Enhancement program, Toyota TSB T-SB-0158-14.

Warranty Enhancement Program – ZE7
Certain 2007-2009 Camry
Certain 2007-2011 Camry Hybrid
Certain 2007-2008 Camry Solara
Certain 2009 Corolla
Certain 2009 Corolla Matrix
Certain 2006-2008 RAV4
Certain 2007-2009 Scion tC
Certain 2008-2009 Scion xB
Extension of Warranty Coverage for 2AZ Engine Oil Consumption
 
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I have to be honest, with him being the second owner and changing his own oil (so no commercial receipts of oil changes) it's likely going to be tough to get action. Less than 2 quarts is a lot of oil to burn over an oil change interval, but it's probably not going to labeled as "excessive" at almost 100k miles.

Changing oil brands may have some minor change as well, and is worth trying.
 
We had an 1997 Dodge 1500 with the 318. It would throw an emissions light if I ran synthetic from burning oil. Went back to dino and it went away. It had about 120k on it. My hunch was the synthetic was thinner and got by the rings easier. Seems a older motor with synthetic in it will leak more too. I might have been completely wrong about my hunch, but that's my 10 cents.
 
A buddy of mine has the same issue...same car. He found one on craigslist that was wrecked and had the motor replaced by Toyota and swapped motors.
 
Fabrik8 said:
I have to be honest, with him being the second owner and changing his own oil (so no commercial receipts of oil changes) it's likely going to be tough to get action. Less than 2 quarts is a lot of oil to burn over an oil change interval, but it's probably not going to labeled as "excessive" at almost 100k miles.

Changing oil brands may have some minor change as well, and is worth trying.
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He has reciepts cause he is meticulous about "having" the oil changed..... But the second owner thing is an issue I think... I guess the best thing he can do is contact toyota and go from there.
 
justjeepin86 said:
We had an 1997 Dodge 1500 with the 318. It would throw an emissions light if I ran synthetic from burning oil. Went back to dino and it went away. It had about 120k on it. My hunch was the synthetic was thinner and got by the rings easier. Seems a older motor with synthetic in it will leak more too. I might have been completely wrong about my hunch, but that's my 10 cents.
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The difference between syn and Dino in that motor does make a big difference but I will bet the issue was with your intake plenum gasket. I had a 97 ZJ with the 318 and had the same issue and tracked it down to the plenum gasket leaking and installed a Hughes engine kit on it and it was like a whole new motor!!
 
I have to agree with all the "maybe"s presented here. Although much older, I had a 95 Celica, with 200k, on it. Thinking I could max the 38mpg, I put synthetic in it. Blew my money out the tailpipe! It did have bad valve seals, & possibly very worn rings. Would smoke upon starting, but cleared out, within a few miles. I ended up running 20/W40-High Mileage oil. I added 1 qt., per 1000 miles. I had the Cleanest engine ever, & re-sold it with 260,000 & No problems. Never clogged the converter, or threw any codes.
 
I once had an 89 Mustang GT that used a quart of oil every 3,000 miles. It did that from the day I bought it with 18,000 miles on it right up until I sold it many years later with well over 100,000 miles on it. The level of oil consumption never changed despite my numerous attempts to loosen the motor up, LOL.
 
My boss's 09 Chevy 5.3 has burned 2 qts per oil change since new. So has several customers vortec motors.

When I worked at the Ford dealer in the early 2000s Ford said 1qt per 1000 miles was acceptable and no action was to be taken. I think Toyota has the same standards.

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I'd be willing to bet it's because of 0 weight oil. My friend's 2015 Subaru has been losing oil since mile 1 (they bought it new). Apparently the 0 weight oil is how they are squeezing more MPG out of these engines, but it's making it's way past rings and seals because it's so thin. They initially told him it would be fine if he ran thicker oil than recommended, but he'd lose fuel economy. That's a no-go. Subaru is warrantying the motor and replacing it with a newly redesigned one. Not sure who he finally had to talk to to get it done, but it was a chore for sure.
 
ManglerYJ said:
I'd be willing to bet it's because of 0 weight oil. My friend's 2015 Subaru has been losing oil since mile 1 (they bought it new). Apparently the 0 weight oil is how they are squeezing more MPG out of these engines, but it's making it's way past rings and seals because it's so thin. They initially told him it would be fine if he ran thicker oil than recommended, but he'd lose fuel economy. That's a no-go. Subaru is warrantying the motor and replacing it with a newly redesigned one. Not sure who he finally had to talk to to get it done, but it was a chore for sure.
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Don't blame the 0 weight, blame the last number, which is usually 20 weight for recent engines.

It's not the "0" number, it's the last number that determines viscosity at operating temp. There really isn't any difference between 5W20 and 0W20 because of that, but the 0w20 is lower viscosity when cold.
 
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Fabrik8 said:
Don't blame the 0 weight, blame the last number, which is usually 20 weight for recent engines.

It's not the "0" number, it's the last number that determines viscosity at operating temp. There really isn't any difference between 5W20 and 0W20 because of that, but the 0w20 is lower viscosity when cold.
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See, this never made sense to me, and maybe you're the guy that can explain it. I always thought the higher the number, the thicker the oil. Oil seems thinner and flows faster when warm, therefore it stands to reason that it's 0 when warm and 20 when cold. I assumed it was to make up for looser tolerances around bearings when cold, but as I type this, I realize that engines are tighter when cold and loosen up when warm. Now I'm all befuddled!
 
catfishblues said:
See, this never made sense to me, and maybe you're the guy that can explain it. I always thought the higher the number, the thicker the oil. Oil seems thinner and flows faster when warm, therefore it stands to reason that it's 0 when warm and 20 when cold. I assumed it was to make up for looser tolerances around bearings when cold, but as I type this, I realize that engines are tighter when cold and loosen up when warm. Now I'm all befuddled!
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Well, it does get 'thinner' when hot. But,
it behaves like a zero weight cold, and behaves like a 20 weight hot.
A 20 wt hot is still thinner than a 0 wt cold.

Just think of a straight weight oil like an old 30 sae. Gets hotter, gets thinner. If you took a 5 weight and compared it at different temps, the 5 is always going to behave thinner than the 30 when both are at the same temp. But a 5 when hot is way to thin, so I need something that flows like a 5 at startup, but is thick enough hot so, we developed multi weight oils, and 5w30 gets what I need at both temps!

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Before we sold our 08 XB, we received the bulletin for the excessive oil use and Toyota offered free test to determine if it met the criteria or not. Since my car did not use excessive oil( 1/2 quart in 5000 mi.), there no reason to have the test done. I also received a warranty revision supplement to put in my owners manual, which to my understanding was transferable, that increase the normal coverage of the engine to 10 years or 150,000 mi. It would be worth checking into it.
 
We had a '97 Saturn that did this same thing. Got it w/ only ~20k miles, then for the next 130k miles, it lost 1-2 quarts every 3k. No smoke, no problems. Aparently this was common, and the norm for that motor.
Same thing mentioned above, poorly fit rings.
 
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