Do you think I need a diesel

jyaks

jyaks

Too many kids for a TJ
Joined
Sep 3, 2008
Location
Archer Lodge
Ok so I'm looking to get a 4 door truck. I would be towing my truck a couple times a year and I'm not sure about using a f150/1500 to do it. It's a '92 f150 that's on 38's right now and I think from ford is about 6,000 lbs add in the 38's and a d60 I don't really know what it weights now. I Lean a little towards the fords but am not set on one. Just looking to see what yall think about towing something this heavy multiple times a year with a 150/1500. I don't have a trailer yet but I know the weight of the trailer factors in here but I don't have one yet.

Thanks in advance
 
You're opening an awesome can of worms. With that said, I bought a diesel over 12 yrs ago and would never go back.
 
there is a weight ratio you'd like to keep for safety reasons. jsut make sure what ever you get weighs more than what ever you are towing.
 
I'd be more concerned about the tow vehicle rating more so than if its diesel or not to start with. 3/4 ton minimum is where I'd start.

For the can of worms.....

You plan on pulling steeper terrain? You like the higher maintenance cost over a gasser? You want to pull strong enough to top most hills as fast as the over sized suv in the other lane? Happy just getting their safely and don't care to feed the ego with black smoke, stacks, and truck nuts and ??? Oh wait that was the other thread.....

Because the newer diesels have higher maintenance and the def fluid, I'll probably switch back to a bigger displacement gasser if a new truck is where its at. That's when my Cummins wears out, or should I say the truck falls down around it. I've done both and large displacement V8's and V10's did just as good of a job as my powerstroke and now cummins are doing.

One certainly has more bottom end and brute hill climbing power, but millage cost for each seems to cancel each other out. Here's my reckoning..

Gasser lower upkeep, cheaper purchase, cheaper fuel, somewhat less miles pulling, much cheaper repairs. Diesel higher purchase, higher upkeep cost, higher fuel, new additives to boot(new trucks), slightly better towing performance, towing mpg improve a bit.

If your performance oriented no doubt a diesel can be made to perform and get out of the gate and up the road pronto.. If your actually over all cost conscious and just need the extra suspension, brakes, and towing package I'd go gas.
 
On another note, a lot of the cab and chassis I build on now at work are either Dodge diesels or Ford gassers. Chebby is about 1/2 of each. Within the last year the trend has really changed to include a lot more gassers. We also rarely build on anything smaller than a ton dually. 90% percent of the time its a 450/4500 or bigger.
 
Let me start off by saying I don't even own a flat bill :flipoff2:

I knew this would be a whole bucket of worms. But that's why I'm asking for advice. I'm not looking for anything brand new...that I know of. Right deal comes along that's a different story. I'm fine with a gasser just trying to make sure I won't trash the transmission by pulling this much
 
I was in the market for a diesel when I first started looking for a tow rig. After some research I came to the conclusion that; for me, a diesel was not worth the considerable additional upfront purchase price. Granted I was looking at mid to late 90s trucks, and the diesels hold their value better, but for me it wasn't worth the additional $5k or so. I went with a dodge 8.0 V10, and it has all the rowing power I need. Also, if I remember correctly for my year dodge the stock cummins and V10 were very comparable in torque and horse power.
 
There's another thread about this somewhere...
But I'll echo Gonovrit's sentiments: I bought a diesel about 3 years ago and have never looked back. Coming from a 6.0 Chevy here's how it stacked up for me:
00 Gas 6.0 Chevy VS 03 Diesel 6.6 Chevy
355ftlbs@4400rpm VS 520ftlbs@1800rpm
$25Oil change @5k miles VS $50 oil change @10k miles
13mpg empty VS 17.5mpg empty
8mpg towing VS 13mpg towing
Falling resale value VS stable resale value

It was an easier decision for me because I found a great deal on my truck, but in hindsight I should have done it sooner. Yes diesel fuel is more expensive but when you compare price per gallon to fuel mileage you still come out ahead.
 
Except for maintenance/parts on a diesel truck cost 4x as much, and even more importantly--up front costs of the vehicle is easily 30-50% more as far as used trucks go. They are great as far as towing goes but having towed more than your truck's weight with an ecoboost f150 to WV--I wouldn't discount modern gassers so easily.
Also for what it's worth, with the D60 and tsl's your f150 is still under 6k lbs. Most any bumper pull trailer <18' is going to be under 2200lb empty. That is still well within the range of any of the new (non baby-bed) half ton trucks. I get these questions a lot and it annoys me when people with no means or skills to fix a truck with 150k miles are looking at old diesels when for the same money could buy a couple year old gas truck...
 
Every truck is different but here are my numbers. I have a 02 GMC 6.0 gasser. I pull a TJ on tons on a 16' equipment trailer so probably around 7000 lbs total trailer weight. Also consider I only tow about 8 times a year.

towing = about 10 mpg depending on your driving style (keep it 65mph or below, no drag racing from stoplights, etc)
empty = 13-15 mpg depending on driving style and city vs highway miles

Consider a 5000 mile round trip. 500 gallons of gas at $2.28 (national average) is $1140. A buddy's Dodge diesel gets 14 mpg (his estimate) towing, so 357 gallons for the same trip at $3.18 (national avg) is $1136. 5000 miles is well outside of the realm of what most people will do but even a trip that long is only $4 difference in fuel costs.

I wont beat him in a race up a hill but we always seem to get to our destination at the same time. Also factor in the convenience of being able to stop at any gas station for a fill up vs having to search for a diesel pump and I'll take the gasser every time. This is from someone that went from a diesel to a gasser so I know both sides of the equation. I also dont DD my truck so that is something to weigh as well. Add higher upfront cost, higher maintenance, etc and for me it isnt a hard decision.

Void where prohibited, your results may vary, not packaged for resale, cash value is 1/100th of 1 cent, consult a doctor before exercise, refrigerate after opening, for official use only, any resemblance to real persons living or dead is purely coincidental, use as intended, employees and their families not eligible, for indoor use only.
 
Just for comparison purposes: a 2003 1500 Yukon xl (suburban platform) with 5.3 on load range E tires is rated from the factory to tow 8400 lbs. I'm about to buy one this week for $4800 in great condition. I figure with my jeep buggy at ~4500 lbs on a 1500-2000 lb trailer is well within the towing capacity of the Yukon. I may only use it to tow 4-5 times a year and drive the jeep to places under 200 miles away like I built it to do and have done for years. Will I try it? Sure. Will it like it? We shall see.
 
I think a lot of people get hung up on the difference between a need and a want. The title of the post is do I 'need' a diesel. If you are towing "a couple times a year" as the original post says, I'd definitely put it in the category of want instead of need. If you are pulling a trailer for a living (i.e. contractor, dedicated race rig, concessions trailer, etc), I'd definitely say that a diesel is a better fit than a gasser. Even if the rig isn't used often, but when it is, it is to pull a heavy load, the diesel is 'typically' built with this in mind and will out pull and out last a gasser.

The real question is what percentage of its anticipated life will be spent pulling a heavy trailer, vs. how much of the time it will be spent pleasure driving. I have already lost count of the number of diesel rigs I've seen with standard tags (not weighted) which tells me the only thing they are meant to pull is a flat-bill wearing kid around the parking lot of the local mall.

For what you are describing, just about any 3/4 or 1 ton truck will suit you, the better question is 2WD or 4WD.

I've always wondered about putting a selectable locker (OX, or ARB) in the back of a 3/4 ton 2WD truck to get the best bang for the buck in an occasional tow rig. Since most of the time, you are towing on paved roads, the 2WD will pull just fine and the weight savings and lack of wear on 4WD components will save gas and repair money. If you get into a soft ground scenario, engage the locker and pull out. When I was wheeling, I was amazed at where I could go with a locked rear end and the front hubs unlocked. Biggest advantage of the 4WD at this point would be the low range. A lot of extra expense for an occasionally used advantage. Again, if you are constantly pulling in muddy lots to ECORS events and getting stuck means a no-show at an event, by all means, get the 4WD. I just figured if I ever got to a point where I had a tow rig, if the tow rig got stuck, I'd unload the towed vehicle (a 4WD Jeep) and pull the truck to get it unstuck and load up again. I never got to that point, so I'll never know.
 
image.jpg
Well according to my truck it weighs 6100 stock
 
Reid said:
without going into that afore mentioned "can of worms" it's solid advice for a towing newb. Don't tow more than your tow vehicle weighs.
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So a stock 2wd Dodge diesel can only tow 6500#?

jyaks said:
View attachment 175960 Well according to my truck it weighs 6100 stock
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That's not the curb weight of your vehicle, it's the most the vehicle is supposed to weigh, fully loaded with all passengers and cargo (more or less).
 
The short answer is no, you do not NEED a diesel. I would say the only two things that actually warrant a diesel are if you pull trailers more than you don't, or if you drive a lot of highway miles (or a combination of both).

Diesels are a lot of fun, but they are very expensive to own and properly maintain, especially when they start showing their age.
After owning two 7.3s over the past ten years, if/when I buy another hauler, it will be gas.
 
I'm looking at a ram 1500 4x4. I really just wanted a diesel but if the gasser will do the job then I don't really NEED a diesel

Thanks for the advice everyone
 
I wouldn't buy a 1/2 ton truck if you plan on towing anything significant. I've owned both, currently tow with a 6.5L diesel Chevy 2500, and I can't imagine towing anything big with any of my 1/2 ton trucks. Even my 2500 6.0L Chevy gasser towed a ton better than my 1500 GMC 5.3L, a whole lot better.
 
WARRIORWELDING said:
Gasser lower upkeep, cheaper purchase, cheaper fuel, somewhat less miles pulling, much cheaper repairs. Diesel higher purchase, higher upkeep cost, higher fuel, new additives to boot(new trucks), slightly better towing performance, towing mpg improve a bit.
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braxton357 said:
Except for maintenance/parts on a diesel truck cost 4x as much,
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livetorun said:
This is from someone that went from a diesel to a gasser so I know both sides of the equation. I also dont DD my truck so that is something to weigh as well. Add higher upfront cost, higher maintenance, etc and for me it isnt a hard decision.
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orange150 said:
Diesels are a lot of fun, but they are very expensive to own and properly maintain, especially when they start showing their age.
After owning two 7.3s over the past ten years, if/when I buy another hauler, it will be gas.
Click to expand...

Can someone please elaborate and quantify what the upkeep/maintenance costs are that are so much higher on a diesel (ignoring newer systems with DEF/regen/overcomplication)? I read this in every thread about this topic and would love to know what to expect once my truck gets high miles on it. My truck only has 330k on it now, but so far it's only been oil and filter changes, so I feel like I'm missing something.
 
Well, I know on my 6.5L when you lose an injection pump you are looking at probably around $600 or so if you do it yourself. Turbo about the same. Injectors are pricier as well.

I don't know about more modern diesels, mine is pretty archaic. :lol:
 
XJsavage said:
Just for comparison purposes: a 2003 1500 Yukon xl (suburban platform) with 5.3 on load range E tires is rated from the factory to tow 8400 lbs. I'm about to buy one this week for $4800 in great condition. I figure with my jeep buggy at ~4500 lbs on a 1500-2000 lb trailer is well within the towing capacity of the Yukon. I may only use it to tow 4-5 times a year and drive the jeep to places under 200 miles away like I built it to do and have done for years. Will I try it? Sure. Will it like it? We shall see.
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Been thinking about getting an aluminum single hauler and trying that too...

jyaks said:
View attachment 175960 Well according to my truck it weighs 6100 stock
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GVW is not curb weight, your truck does not weigh 6,100. My LB7 Duramax scales under 7,000.
 
jeepinmatt said:
Can someone please elaborate and quantify what the upkeep/maintenance costs are that are so much higher on a diesel (ignoring newer systems with DEF/regen/overcomplication)? I read this in every thread about this topic and would love to know what to expect once my truck gets high miles on it. My truck only has 330k on it now, but so far it's only been oil and filter changes, so I feel like I'm missing something.
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Any monkey with a wrench can overhaul a gas motor. When it comes time to overhaul a diesel, you have to have some scratch on hand, because they aren't cheap. I have a buddy who was trained in Detroit Diesel and CAT.
 
shawn said:
So a stock 2wd Dodge diesel can only tow 6500#?.
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to the guy asking if his truck will tow the stated load......he clearly isnt knowledgable or experienced enough. I wouldnt recommed anyone with limited knowledge or experience jump into towing at capacity loads. Would you recommend to the guy asking what welder he needs that he build his on buggy? would you ride in it? because this guy is gonna be driving on the roads and i certainly dont wanna be in front of him on a downhill section because some folks on a forum told him he could tow 26001 lbs with his half ton.
 
Have fun with your straw men, Reid.
 
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