Dog surgery recommendations

rockcity

rockcity

everyday is a chance to get better
Joined
Apr 10, 2005
Location
Greenville, NC
OK, my 10 year old lab (95lbs) needs CCL surgery. I've seen and talked to several people about this surgery, including the Vet specialist in Cary and local vets.

If anyone is familiar with CCL surgery (ACL) in dogs, they will be familiar with the TPLO procedure. Research has told me that the TPLO is somewhat outdated and fairly invasive, which I would want to limit for a 10 year old dog. Complications with this surgery can lead to amputation of the leg or permament damage.

Another procedure, Tight Rope (TR) has been developed fairly recently and is a super strong suture (same as used in human ankles, etc.) and is much less invasive and recovery time is supposed to be reduced down to like 4-6 weeks. Complications can include failure, which can be repaired, or if not appropirate, then the TPLO can be chosen. The most common complication is infection.

I keep getting mixed opinions from the industry. I've seen 3 different vets and surgeons on this and have 2 telling me TPLO and 1 telling me the TR. All the online research is also telling me to do the TR over the TPLO. One of the TPLO opinions is being paid by the other that is suggesting TPLO, so I'm not really counting that as I feel its biased.

I guess what I need from NC4x4 is some real world opinions on each surgery if anyone has any experience with either of them. Since the TR is so new, I'm sure to find less peoploe with experience on this procedure.

Who does anyone suggest talking to locally. I'm willing to take Jackson anywhere that gives him the best service. However, everyone thats seen him suggests surgery, but which one is best is what I'm getting mixed responses on. I don't think I need to take him anywhere else, just get opinons on one surgery over the other. $$$ is always an issue, but the cost difference between the two surgeries is only about $500, so its not really a deciding factor.

I just need some comments from people that have experience with either operation. NC4x4 seems to have a lot of dog owners and I'm sure some have had to have the CCL surgery...
Even phone numbers to vets, specialists, etc. that have had this would be welcomed.

Thanks all.
 
Have you contacted NCSU Vet School? They could give you some info, and possibly do the procedure. If I were to need any animal operated on, Id contact them for the best info and doctors to do what was needed.

chris m
 
tinman said:
Have you contacted NCSU Vet School? They could give you some info, and possibly do the procedure. If I were to need any animal operated on, Id contact them for the best info and doctors to do what was needed.
chris m
Click to expand...


yep, talked to them too. Seems they only do the TPLO as the TR method is newer. They didn't have any real opinions on the TR.

I've talked to many people in the field and am getting about a 50/50 split on which one is best. Usually, the surgeons that do the TPLO recommend that procedure and the ones that do the TR are recommending that procedure... :shaking: Because of this I feel that I'm getting biased opinions on procedures.

I have found a couple places that perform both surgeries, so my next visit is to one of those. We'll see
 
We took our dog to the vet specialists in cary for emergency surgery the day after x-mas in 2007. They did a great job, called us alot for updates, and invited us to stop by anytime. I highly recommend them. The vet specialists down here in charlotte for follow ups after the surgery sucked. I will never use them down here again.
 
Vet specialist in Cary is good but better have a deep wallet! I'd definately consider price checking unless price is not an issue. Cost me $900 for a weekend visit - about 2 hours worth. Dog got knocked up and was too old to carry (my fault but regardless...) They gave her inducing pills to expel the remaining pup and then cleaned her up real good. I spoke with another vet that told me that was a common occurance (nothing special) and that she would have only charged about $250 if I'd called her. That was a vet on Old Stage Road and Hwy 210 down in Angier. They were closed on weekends and I didn't notice my dog had issues til Friday night.
Of course this sounds like a precedure that you wouldn't want Farmer Anne doing on her Kitchen table either? Cary Vet Specialist is probably top of the line around here... Just costly...
 
yeah, CVSR has a pretty good reputation, I just didn't like the attitudes of the doctors when I talked to them, especially when I told them I was exploring alternative procedures (ones they don't do...). They got really defensive and everything I said or asked about on other procedures was immediately expressed as negative and wrong, no explanation. Some doctors are like that, but I'd think they would want to explain procedures a little versus just shooting ideas down without explanations... The doctor may have already considered all procedures with Jackson, but nothing was really ever explained; we were just told of 1 procedure that Jackson would get and nothing else. This is mainly what has caused me to research it more. Had everything been explained in more detail with all options put on the table up front, I wouldn't be spending the time researching for all options and Jackson would have already had his surgery.

Cost? Well, CVSR is nearly the same as any other surgeon for the surgery as I've talked to about 8 different ones in the area and they all are within about $200 of each other.

Right now we are leaning towards the TPLO surgery. The surgeon in Wilmington can't see him for a consultation until May 5, which is too late. We want Jackson to have the surgery soon so he can recover and so he doesn't damage the other good leg.

Because I felt like I was getting a lot of biased opinions on my dog and the procedure that was necessary, I asked for a recommendation from my vet as to someone I could talk to that would be the least biased (no "selling" us one over the other for their own good) and he recommended a place in Smithfield. Dr. Gibbs is highly recommended by our hometown vet and I talked with him yesterday and feel comfortable with them. He was nice enough to spend an hour on the phone with a complete stranger and offer up his opinions on all procedures and I feel like he was the least biases of any of the surgeons I've talked to. Because of this, Jackson will go in Monday for evaluation and prob. Wed for the surgery in Smithfield.

Has anyone had any experience with Willowrun Vet Hospital in Smithfield???
 
Vet..

I used to live in Smithfield and I took my dog, Ms. Purdy, to that vet's office. I always loved it there! I never had to get a surgery or anything for my dogs, but I always felt like that whole office would always do what was best for my dog, not what would cost me the most money or whatever. They were always quick to give me alternatives and explain how well each alternative would work. In fact, I remember one time they told me about this really expensive procedure, but talked me out of it because there was a different treatment that would work just as well and cost WAY less!! It's been a while so I don't remember the procedures or anything, but that's not important. Anyway, I highly recommend them!!!

I'm sorry you and your dog are going through this. Wish I could do more for you as I'm a huge dog lover myself, but maybe just my recommendation will be enough. I wish all the best to you in taking care of your dog.
 
I have A boxer with the same problem in both legs (rear) he is 9years old, I was quoted $2500 a leg and with him being that old I just can't see spending that much. What I did is stocked up on actiflux it's a joint medicine for horses, it works wonders. Just my opinion. Also the Vet in Wilkesboro is a great doctor if you do the deal.
 
Dr Gibbs was my beagle's vet years ago, right after they opened the new office they are in now.

Very thurough, very, very conciensous (sp) of both the animals needs as well as the "parent's" needs. Our beagle became very ill, not ever knowing what was really wrong with her (having seisures)...they tried everything to help but in the end we had to put her down. They were great with that. They have a nice quiet room for those occurances. We got the last bill from them about a week after we had to put her down. The bill included all of her final procedures incurred the last couple of days she was there: x-rays, bood work, a scope of her intestines, medicines, boarding costs, euthenasia (sp), etc....the total cost was $0.00. Later in the week we recieved a condolence card.

Great place all the way around.

Good luck with the procedure.

chris
 
PM Adam Birkenheuer (ajbirken) on the board here.

He's a PHD and has worked in the specialty place in Cary and at the NCSU vet school (may still be working at both places). He'll know who to call.

J
 
CSVR may be a fantastic place. I just wasn't "sold" on the doctors. However, a lot of doctors don't have great people skills as I don't think thats taught much in school. This may be the issue here, but the doctor just didn't sell himself to me enough. He may be the best one around, but I've heard a lot of great things about Dr. Gibbs, specifically, in Smithfield and he took the time to talk to me and explain ALL options and offer up his opinions on all procedures. He was also understanding that I was just seeking opinons and he had no real chance on me bringing my dog there, so I felt like he was the most unbiased to date.

We'll see what comes out of it. I also PMed Adam.
 
I'll send your question to my brother. He is a veterinary orthopedic surgeon. Used to live in KDH but now works in Perth Australia. He has the distinction of being the only surgeon in the world to perform a spinal repair on a snake. A 10 foot long coastal taipan.
Anyway I'll post his response/recommendations.
 
Here is my brother's reply He note toward the bottom that he has performed over 2500 successful ACL.


Okay - I'll get my opinions out of the way first - the TR (Tightrope) technique is overkill. What a surgical company has done is complicate a simple procedure with a patented technique and flooded the market with all sorts of hype and praise for what is actually an unproven and unneccessary. Once the long term effects and results are in (5-7 years) I am sure this technique will fall out of favor due to a reputation as a poor surgical technique.

So my first advice... tell your friend to forget about the TR - not only is the actual implant idea a bad one, the entire surgical procedure avoids many essential steps in performing a complate ACL surgery appropriately.

TPLO (tibial plateau leveling osteotomy) is also a bit of an overkill, but a very good option for larger. An even better option for larger dogs the utilizes a similar technique but is having better results is the TTO (Triple Tibial Osteotomy). Long term recovery is 8-10 weeks before back to normal and has been very successful in my experience.

A more reasonable option for a 10 year old patient that we want to achieve as rapid a recovery as possible - and it's the one I'd recommend second to the TTO, is the ECS (extracapsular stabilization) technique that utilizes the DeAngeles suture techenique of various synthetic material depending on animal size, activity level and surgeon''s preference. This procedure tends to cost about half of a TPLO or TTO and my patients tend to be fully recovered and running around 6 weeks after surgery.

If he has any questions, feel free to pass them on to me; but I've performed over 2,500 ACL surgeries and I've considered many techniques folks have tried to or have successfully introduced and it comes down this... I recommend either a TTO or a ECS procedure if he wants optimal results.
 
Our Mutt had ACL surgery in 06 when she was 6 years old.

I don't remember the terminology but..... basically they put a band in to replace the ACL. We went to a local orthopedic specialist, she was really good with her. The more active/fit your dog is, the better your odds of recovery. The biggest part of the recovery was keeping the dog from doing too much too soon. We had to crate her so she would stay off the furniture. She'll be 9 this year and the injured leg is stronger than her uninjured leg.

Full recovery for the "band" procedure was more like 6 months. The day after surgery she was toe tapping the injured leg. She could walk without a limp within 6 weeks, just short distances and no jumping. You may be able to Honkey Rig a doggie wheelchair to help Jackson get around until he can put full weight on the leg again. If you let Jackson "3 leg" around too much this can put too much strain on the other leg, causing an injury. If Jackson's overweight, any weight reduction before surgery is a bonus.

good luck
 
Thanks everyone.

fish's brother's opinions are totally opposite of what I've been hearing, but is a refreshing and unbiased view on each method.

From what I've understood, the extracapsular method is for smaller dogs and the Tightrope method is basically the same, just developed for larger dogs.

At this point, I have to just see another surgeon for their opinion and just make a decision.

thanks all
 
Oh yeah, our dog is basset sized, short long - around 45 lbs. Strong as hell....

A 80 lb dog rated band was put in. Still can't keep her off the damn furniture....
 
Update:

Jackson went to Willowrun Vet in Smithfield for the TPLO surgery last Wed. From day 1 he was walking around like he never had surgery!!! However, this was bad as we needed to keep him off of the leg to let the bone heal. We finally just put him in his crate for a few days with 5min morning and evening potty breaks and he is better than ever before.

We got him an E-collar so he wouldn't pull at his staples but rarely put it on him (only when we aren't home). He was a little sick from the medicine and wouldn't eat too much but yesterday he did a 180 and is eating like normal, normal energy, playing, etc.

We are still limiting his activity but have increased it to a little mor around the house and 10 min. in the mornings and evenings. Other than 1/4 of him being shaved, you wouldn't even know he had surgery less than 1 week ago.

I can't say enough good things about Dr. Gibbs in Smithfield. He was really nice, explained the procedures and why this and why that and offered up his opinions and was as un-biased as I could have hoped.

Post op checkup is next week, so we'll see how he is doing then but my bud is doing really well right now, just 1 week after.
 
This "news" is great! I am glad your friend is doing well. When it's a family memeber you only want the best, looks as if you found it.
Congrats!
 
I have no input to your decision but i have to recommend a vet for you to check out if your willing to do a little travel to get the best care.
http://www.seasidevet.com/
This is where i take my pets.. Top of the line service and a high, but mostly fair price. This is one of the only award winning vets in eastern NC or SC for that matter.
Dr Ward which is the head vet there is a specialist in elder pet medicine/care. and he is the vet that goes on the Rachel Ray show.. So he is pretty much as highly recommended as they come.. Feel free to give them a call and chat with them before you make any decisions. They are located in Calabash NC
 
sounds good man, glad the pup is doing well.... My dog is family
 
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