Electric Motors

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Yay!Gurrr

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In a passing conversation with my brother a few weeks ago, we half jokingly half seriously discussed the merits of making an electric type buggy.. This would have a small(er) gas engine spinning a small generator/motor/machine that would solely supply power to move the rig.. Rig would be in the ~2000# range..

Obviously the cost aspect seemed to dominate the feasibility of doing something like this..

Where is a good place to get used electric motors? Anyone have any back ground in their use in an industrial setting ?

Some obvious ideas we came up with were..
* Possible use of a wheel motor.. in an IFS/IRS setting...
* Use of motor on pinion/input.

Also some discussion as to AC or DC motor..
AC might be easier to source but would require online power from the generator.
DC would allow for some Bat. Storage system to provide boost in time of need etc..

Are there any sort of flexible coupling type shafts that can handle 3-4k of load??

Just tossing this out there for some discussion...
 
There a tons of electric vehicle forums that could help. A while back I found someone that was parting out an electric bus. Pretty sure those motors would have done the trick. I think you will still want some gear reduction in there though. It is 100% torque from the start, but if you keep the motor spinning your reduce your current requirements.

AC motors seem to be where the industry is heading. With a diesel/electric hybrid AC would be great. Use a small diesel to spin a generator for trail riding, then when you hit the rocks go to battery power. I keep thinking about building my neighbors kid one just as a test. Lawnmower engine for the generator, golf cart motors, super caps for power storage.
 
The only thing with AC vs DC is that a DC will give you veriable speed where as an AC motor would have to be spinning constantly at the same RPM unless you put it on a converter for your frequency. Then you would loose some of your HP from the motor. If you were serious about it youd want to run a DC drive motor with a gear box, that would have you set up right. I worked at a motor repair shop here in GSO for 3 years rewinding motors.
 
http://cgi.ebay.com/REAR-AXLE-ASSEMBLY-BRAND-NEW-FOR-E-Z-GO-TXT-GOLF-CART_W0QQitemZ7175621905QQihZ015QQcategoryZ64663QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem

Hmm, so a NEW golf cart axle costs $600, I am sure you could get them used / cheaper if you knew where. Looks like the motors bolt directly in...and were running $400ish for 10-15 hp.

To go 4wd means steering issues, so instead of traditional steering, you could push/pull the axle itself since the motor is mounted on it. (In other words steers like your old "red wagon")

SO a golf cart buggy, prob set you back $1500-2000 with two "rear" axles, steering, tires, etc...

The motors on ebay 10hp and above went quickly to $200-500 each if you went independent motor per wheel...but you would need gear reduction since they spin at 1700 rpm...
 
Mike, I thought about this, but thought about going fully electric.

Things I wondered:
1) How heavy would the batteries end up being - would the powertrain setup significantly outweigh a petroleum powered driveline?
2) Could I re-charge it at camp, like get a campsite with electric hookup?

I didn't look into it too much, because I don't have the time or facility to do it now.

But I checked out some electric vehicle forums - a lot of info out there about the conversions for street-driven vehicles. Basically adapting the electric motor in place of the old engine, to the stock trans, and adding a bank of batteries.
 
another possibility would be electric powered hydraulic pump then use 4 hydraulic motors at each wheel would make steering both front and rear easier
 
Some input here...

I would be lookin more towards acquiring an old electric fork lift. I have seen these used for electric cars. You would get everything you need for low speed operation and LOTS of power. The big motor, the electrics setup, the HD transmission, the HD final drive...and, as a bonus, a hydraulic system for yer steering!!!

And yes you could plug it in at the campground...with a charger...charge it overnight...same as they would do at the "Lowes store"! lol!
 
Hmm

I've kicked this around with my Dad. He did some work on the electric bus thing. What he suggests is hydraulics (not electric motors despite being something he is familiar with). Something similar to what you see in heavy equipment.
 
I tend to agree with the use the hydrulics part.

Electric motors and batteries are HEAVY, electric motors use MAJOR AMPS when under heavy load, creating massive amounts of heat ( torque loading a motor at low speed). THis is bad for the electricals and the motors ( speed controllers for fork lifts start in the $1500 range for that sort of amperage draw, and go up from there)

A small diesel engine driving a hydrulic pump powering individual hyro motors could be a much lighter set up, possibly even lighter than and engine and trans driven rig.

Piggy back style fork lift ( the ones you see mounted on the rear of trucks and trailers) are ripe for the picking for this, small 3-4 cyl diesels with pumps AND drive systems all right there.
 
I remember hanging out with Ken Shoupee when he was big into the rock crawling scene out west and a buddy of his was all about wanting to build a hydrostatic drive jeep. this was 10years ago and I was just out of high school so I thought he was nuts. Fast forward a few years and I'm working on my mechanical eng degree learning about hydraulics with the infinitely variable drive ability, high tq/hp to weight ratio, instant reverse, Ultra low impact to components, and I'm thinking that fat guy at Shoupees was right. He talked about using a prekins 3 cyc diesel with a variable piston pump, kinda like a bobcat uses, then just 8 gallons of diesel and 20 gallons of hydraulic fluid with a cooler. I'll change the rest of his plan cause I like my plan better from here, run 2 hydraulic motors(maybe use the drive motors out of a bobcat) one with dshaft to the front, one with dshaft to the rear. Have a high speed/low speed valve for high range/low range, and the ablity to front dig to by using 2 motors by just cutting the rear motor valve off (which would act as a line lock to). I think it would be really neat and if you could find a scraped bobcat or small backhoe you'd have your complete drivetrain.
As far a electric goes, it would be even heavier with large hp motors, stupid heavy with batterys (we won't even talk about run time), and really complicated with lots of exspensive parts that will fail when the vibration of offroad travel begins. I worked for 5yrs as a tech going world wide repairing and upgrading prescion grinding machines, most used 25-50 hp balador ac motors, the motors weighed anywhere from 200 to 800 pds and required equipment that is not resistant to open climate conditions and failed if their isolator mounts became loose or harden from age/heat. Go with hydraulic, it'd be cheaper, lighter, insanely more reliable, way way more powerful to, plus you could carry spare parts like hoses and controls in a small tool box if you really wanted to.
 
Hyd is the way to go on this I would stay away from cat or Perkins & go with the 3.3 Cummings a 90 series sauer pump & a bent axis motor on each axle with skid protection of course it would be expensive to design the valving for being locked or independent front & rear drive (the fluid will go to the least Resistance) & you could probablly reach diecent road speeds if you were to use 2 speed motors instead of a bent axis alot of things are possible with hydrualics would be fun to design
 
Ok, there is a hydro rig being built on pirate right now and there are several electric buggys on there to. Something screwy with my account there right now so I can't search for them. But there there.
 
check out cadtrac -- google the word "cadtrac" (actually, google was acting freaky on the search for cadtrac for me tonight, you may have better luck with another search engine). Also search on machinebuilders.net

Cadtrac is a set of plans by a company to make a 4wd center swivel/pivot steer garden tractor. Many people have built them...the best are modified and enhanced from the plan. Some pretty cool fabrication out there.

EDIT just been looking over some stuff at machinebuilders.net (all kinds of cool projects there)...there is one guy building one, but using FF hubs and brakes cut down from 1-ton axles, with a hyd motor direct-coupled to a short axleshaft at each hub.
 
YA !!! the tony K car (I had it book marked somewhere)

Biggest issue I see is the low voltage.. If you could get the voltage up (like the 42v standard that want to move to) you can reduce the wire size and still move the same overall power.

P(watts) =Volts x Amps


i didnt see before that the tony-k car is running ~96v so obviously they are smart peoples...
 
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